tournament results

[Colourshifter]

We played a post November extended tournament this past weekend. It was obviously non sanctioned but gave everyone a chance to test out the upcoming metagame. Surprise, non of the decks listed here came out on top. We played 5 rounds of Swiss to determine the champion.

A friend of mine played Benzo and went 2-3. Aether Burst really sucks after you have Reanimated a Verdant Force.

Another friend played Tinker and went 1-4. He is generally seen to be one of the better players around here. There was just too much artifact hate out there. Let that be a forwarning for all of you Tinker players.

I played a WWb deck and went 2-3. I am still licking my wounds.

Mono blue control only went 3-2.

There was a Rock player there also and he also finished out of the running.

The deck that won the whole thing. Plain old ordinary White Weenie. No splash, nothing exciting, but extremely agressive. Parralax Wave was his removal and it seemed to be very effective.
In second place was a person playing Quiet Roar. Everyone dismissed him as playing a type 2 deck in an extended environment. Yet somehow he crushed everyone except the White Weenie deck. Aether Burst seems to work just as well in extended. Especially against Benzo.
In third place was Goblin Sligh, using Lackeys, and the Recruter/Ringleader combo for deck manipulation and card drawing.

The lesson I learned was that aggressive decks with a lot of creatures seem to be the thing. Either you better be playing them or have a way of beating them.

[Hawkson101]

that is very helpful.

how much artifact hate was there?

[Colourshifter]

The white players all were packing Seal of Cleansing. And many were running Serenity in the sideboard. One of the decks was running a copy of Serenity main deck to be tutored for as needed with the Academy Rector.

Benzo was running Naturalize in the sideboard.

The red decks all had a couple of Shatters and Shatterstorm.

It seems everyone is expecting Tinker and Wildfire which almost makes a deck unplayable.

[Joseph Penney]

I really wish that there were some Trinity green decks in that tourney so that we could see what they can do in that environment...I would imagine they would do quite well...

EDIT:sorry, I forgot to ask, do you happen to have a decklist of the WW deck? That would be really helpful in some of my playtesting and help me make predictions for the metagame of post Nov.

[Colourshifter]

This is what I believe to be close to the WW deck list that won the tourny.

4 Windswept Heath
14 Plains
4 Wasteland

4 Mother of Runes
4 Warrior en-Kor
4 Longbow Archer
4 Soltari Monk
4 Soltari Priest
4 Soltari Champion

4 Cursed Scroll
4 Crusade
4 Parallax Wave
2 Disenchant

I know he only had 1 1 drop creature. Cursed Scroll was his only other 1 drop. I also know he ran more lands than usual in order to be able to use the Scroll and to be able to cast the Parallax Wave. Besides the new fetch lands made sure that he had mana and that he was going to thin his deck so that he wasn't as likely to draw land late game. The Soltari Champions along with Crusade was creating these 4/4 first striking Longbow Archers/Warrior en-Kors in the attack that were just too much for his opponents to deal with. Then Parallax Wave stepped in and bought him the final turn that he needed to finish off his opponent.

I don't know what he was running in the sideboard other than some artifact hate. I know he sided out the Crusade vs. me in game 2 to put in more Disenchants to take out my Worship.

[Morbid_Lenore]

Rock lost to WW? Sounds impressive to me...

If the rock player survived after turn 5, there is no way for the WW deck to win~ Deed anyone?

[Joseph Penney]

It is an impressive deck, they have enough damage to keep an opponent running, and then they just play Cursed Scroll after the Deed is blown to make sure that probably the one other card they have in their hand is 2 damage per turn for the opponent to finish them off. It's a brilliant strategy. Plus all of the searchlands thin the deck out so drawing lands late-game won't be a problem. Paralax Wave is just an amazing card that will also let the player take out any offense from the Rock for a few turns, wether it be Spiritmonger, Ravenous Baloth, or any other threat. All I have to say is: "WOW!"

[Colourshifter]

In the White Weenie vs. The Rock match up it came down to the Parallax Wave. The WW player cast the Wave on turn 4. That meant that the Rock could no longer deed and have it be of any use. The weenie player would just remove his own creatures in response to the deed being blown. Then once the deed went off he would have all of his creatures back again. And waiting for the Wave to run out of counters was also not an option that the Rock player liked since he was facing a Soltari Priest that was wittleing away at his life.

I think that the problem with the Rock deck was that he replaced the Wall of Roots with Llanowar Elves. I think the better choice would have been Wall of Blossoms. The elves sped up the mana but did nothing on defence against the attacking Longbows and en-Kors.

[ChaosArbiter]

A few comments. Oath absoutly wrecks white weenie. Opposing scroll wrecks white weenie. Unless you catch the sligh player with their pants down and a first turn MoR becomes active, sligh beats White Weenie pretty eaisly. Wildfire wrecks white weenie actively. Benzo should be able to beat it, just don't grab the verdant. Asesdant evincar/Avatar both help.

[Colourshifter]

I disagree about sligh beating WW. Soltari Priest/Warrior en-Kor is game over for the sligh player. Then game 2 the red hate comes into play. And without Anarchy sligh no longer has a way to get rid of Worship, Cop: Red, Aegis of Honour or whatever you are running as red hate. And an opposing Scroll has always been a problem for White Weenie just like Masticore is brutal against the Weenie player once it hits the table. Hopefully the Weenie player has a Crusade on the board or the Seal/Disenchant ready. But results speak for themselves. The WW player went 5-0 to win.

Oath on the other hand could give WW a difficult time. But I am not seeing many people playing it anymore. There was noone at the tournament playing Oath. I think people are afraid without Gaea's Blessing anymore. That and the loss of duals has also hurt Oath. The new Turboland vesion with the Battlefield Scrounger seems to be very fragile and takes a while to get going. Meanwhile the Weenie player has the Oath deck on a clock. Without the Spike Weaver I just think this version is weaker than in the past.

As to Wildfire, the same things that screw Tinker also screw Wildfire. And there were a lot of people running that hate, at least in the sideboard, with some of them running it main deck. Besides Wildfire will not knock out Soltari Priest, Warrior en_Kor, or Mother of Runes (if she is on line).

[ChaosArbiter]

The decklist you posted had exactly 2 cards that could even affect a non-creature based deck. Unless you get ungodly parings, the chances that you won't run into a good benzo deck, a good rock player, or a good oath player are slim to none. Just because I once went undefeated in a 40 man FNM playing Salmon Snack doesn't mean it's an undefeatable deck. Fluke.

[Colourshifter]

That is very true. But first it was not my deck. The deck I played only went 2-3. I only listed what I assume to be a deck list of the person who won based upon playing against him and watching others play against him.

My point however is that all of us are sitting here employing armchair theory to a yet to be defined metagame. So when I had the chance to partake in a real tournament, I thought I would post the results in order to give people something to think about in what to expect.

These are the lessons I learned.
1) Control did not fare that well at all. The loss of Force was brutal.
2) Fast beatdown decks seemed to be the thing that was winning.
3) Too many people were expecting Tinker and it subsequently ended up at the bottom of the heap.

[ChaosArbiter]

And what do you think the people at the tournament did? Also use decks that wern't defined by the metagame. You can't possibly define a metagame by one tournament when everyone was going in blind

[Joseph Penney]

All I have to say is: good deck, really good strategy, and that this was just one piece of the metagame. Sure, everyone is most likely going to play artifact-hate in the board or even maindeck, but that doesn't mean that Tinker, Wildfire, and Control are dead. The fact that a type 2 deck finished in 2nd also says something about the types of decks in that area. I'm guessing that the metagame will be much different if you add in Oath, Trinity, Suicide Black(don't underestimate), and a decent Control(did the deck even have Complicate?!). These results were a wake-up call to me at least, I had never even concidered WW as a power in Extended, I might just put a deck together myself :). These are just a few examples of many powers in Extended. It is nice to see some results being posted, and I would appreciate if everyone would keep posting here in the future(it's really helpful :)). Once we get more posts we can see a diversified view of the new metagame.

[Colourshifter]

Mr. Chaos Arbiter, I still think you are missing the point. This was by no means an attempt to define the metagame. I am certain that WW will not be a deck that will always go undefeated. There are always ways to beat any deck. The metagame will not be defined until the pros have a chance to play extended. Becuase lets face it, a majority of the competitive magic playing community has no imagination and will simply play what won the last tournament played by the pros.

With that being said, I think we can all learn some lessons from real world play rather than sitting here saying this deck is tier 1 or that deck is tier 2 when in reality we don't know yet. I am simply putting up what happened at this tournament for people to see and make whatever decision they want about it. I know that it will influence my decisions in future play. It seems as though you have already made your mind up about it thinking that it was probably just a bunch of local scrubs when that couldn't be farther from the truth. Sure it wasn't a Pro Tour or even a PtQ but many of the players here do have very high DCI ratings (+1800). It was simply a chance for all of the extended players around here to test out deck design, the metagame, etc. before it affects our rating.

[Hawkson101]

one thing people do every year is discount white weenie. on paper white weenie looks weak, because for every 2/2 they have, you have a 3/3, or a counter spell etc. buts its very consistent, and has great creatures.

i am playing the rock, and hopefully this toruny was just bad for him. also, control blue can win a tourny any day of the weak. it just has to get lucky enough not to die early in the game.

[Colourshifter]

Good luck with the Rock. I think it will be one of the best decks in the new format. I think the problem that the Rock player had could be solved simply by running Wall of Blossoms as the replacement for Wall of Roots. He was running Llanowar Elves.

The problem I forsee White Weenie having, if it gets popular, is that people will start main decking Massacre. That is part of what spelled doom for it last year after it won the extended portion of World's.

[ACowSaysMooMoo]

Well your environment must've sucked.. or you are providing us with inaccurate information...

i think the environment you were in was a play testing one... if anyone good tried to go for the full win would've done so.

you won't see the good stuff untill december (that's when the ptq and the pt is)...

i used a nice sharpie to play test and i used apprentice and a friend. november decks... are typical... no combo.. well there are a few decks you can consider combo. and aluren runs one worship to beat the beatdown :::]. so if you expect a beatdown environment than play aluren (academy rector gets you worship)...

i've experemented with everything...
suicide black (no hatred)

hatred (no hatred has 3rd turn kill just like hatred... except hatred is horrible)

stompy (nice it has good anti-graveyard and good artifact removal)

shard pheonix (nice)

white weenie (okay, but i like suicide black/stompy better)

Both sligh types "goblin and classic" (sucked... until i threw in the one final fortune in the mainboard like old school did :::]) DO NOT PLAY WITH MORE THAN ONE FINAL FORTUNE OR YOU ARE CRAZY.

morphling intuition (okay.. shard was better)

control black (it will either lose all the time to a certain deck or win all the time against it)

aluren (okay)

rock (over rated, but it annoys opponents)

stompy with control type cards such as naturalize (sucked).

[Joseph Penney]

You didn't even try Carpe Noctum? Then you seriously did not explore the full environment, and you didn't even try freaking BENZO?!!!!! Tinker, Wildfire Rage?! Where the heck are all of the decks that DEFINE the metagame?! Where's Trinity, eh?! You have obviously not explored half of the decks you can use, and by the way, Control took a serious hit with the loss of Impulse, and Force of Will. I understand that you are exploring some of the possibilities for interactions with the Teir 2 decks and some of the possible Teir 1 decks, but come on, at least put the top notch Teir 1 decks in there.

[mrmatt2532]

hey just wanted to mention that over at magic4you, they did some november extended tournaments on apprentice.........
in the first tournament:
1st - trinity
2nd - reanimator
3rd - enchantress

second tournament:
1st - reanimator
2nd - enchantress

it looks like enchantress is pretty strong and we all knew benzo would be, and trinity takes first in one.........didn't expect that

you can check it out here for the decklists:
http://www.magic4you.nu/decks/

[Recoiled]

i think the main problem here is that tinker decks are still stuck in "silver bullet" mode for most people and they fail to see how godly tinker can be with upheaval. i can tell you first hand if i had been there with my tinker version white weenie would have some problems.

[mrmatt2532]

lets see your tinker recoiled........just interested......i still can't ever finalize me tinker deck, to many decisions.....

[Recoiled]

4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
4 Metal Worker
4 tangle wire
3 Upheaval
3 Stroke of Genius
3 Misdirection
4 Tinker
1 Crumbling Sanctuary
1 defensive grid
1 Phyrexian Colossus
3 Phyrexian Processor
2 Masticore
4 City of Traitors
4 Skerry
4 Rishadan Port
11 Island

SB
1 processor
1 upheaval
3 defencive grids
2 masticores
4 time stretch
4 ? thinking smoke stacks and such.

[Hawkson101]

people still discount WW because of all the answers they have against white weenie. white weenie, and beatdown in general, is the most consistent deck out there. and serenity in the SB of white weenie means scoop for tinker.

scoop

[FearOfTheDark]

decks to beat

#1&2 U/B Reanimate Aluren
#3&4 The The Rock/Suicide Black

PT Housten showed that

but the suicide black decks there sucked badly
half the field was U/B Reanimate/Aluren

the next deck i saw alot of in the lists were suicide black... but they sucked... those people who played suicide black has crappy decklists.

it was a waste of time looking through the A-Z decklists... just look at top 8. everything else is not worth the time of day

well there is draco explosion.... :::] that looks fun... but if i were to bring a fun deck to a PT i would bring STEAL YO MONEY... steal yo money owns U/B reanimator... it could maybe kill aluren... hood wink land boomerang land... keep returning land :::]. and use the pirates to steal his money.... and there is that UUU dude that you can use as a forcespike creature the turn it comes into play (tap a wizard or something you control: counter target spell unless he pays one)

I made a Steal Yo Money deck for fun... :::]

4 HoodWink
4 Boomerang
4 Aven Fogbringer
4 cephalid constable
4 patron wizard
4 spiketail hatchling
4 rishadan footpad
4 rishadan cutpurse
4 parallax tide
4 rishadan port
20 island

oh yeah that sounds like fun :::]

[Serialjester]

Originally posted by mrmatt2532
hey just wanted to mention that over at magic4you, they did some november extended tournaments on apprentice.........
in the first tournament:
1st - trinity
2nd - reanimator
3rd - enchantress

second tournament:
1st - reanimator
2nd - enchantress

it looks like enchantress is pretty strong and we all knew benzo would be, and trinity takes first in one.........didn't expect that

you can check it out here for the decklists:
http://www.magic4you.nu/decks/

I don't know if I'd trust those results, given the fact that all of those decks were janky, especially those 2 Benzo decks. That one Benzo with Tainted Pact maindeck is pretty funny.

I don't know anything about the PT Houston decklists, where can I find those?

Edit: Nevermind, I found them. Last Rites in Reanimator? 12 discard spells? Oh boy. And no enchantment removal due to the fact that it was mono Black. Damn, that is messed up. That Angry Ghoul deck is interesting, somewhat along the lines of what I was trying to do in T2 when Sutured Ghoul was first released. Still don't like it, if that's the best that pros can do, hahahaha.

[Ravaged Innocence]

I think white weenie is still viable. They lost two very good cards in the rotation though, swords to plowshares and empyrial armor. Being a white weenie player myself this hurt my deck a lot. But now I am using pump enchantments (crusade and glorious anthem for example) and it seems to be doing all right. There are a couple cards that I think are working all right in white weenie (my version).

1.) Kor Haven - I know it ties up your mana and such but it also stops big beats late in the game. Spiritmonger can't get through it and neither can Avatar of Woe usually a first pick for reanimtor to go for when facing WW).

2.) Whipcorder - This card has been getting a lot more attention lately. It is a two caster 2/2 with a very good ablitly.


Well that is just my opinion.