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Hello all, this is the main thread of team MTGnews. Current members are:
Skizzik
Yawgmoth's Father
Accolon
Chilling Apparition
Lich
Terraformer51
Proscrypt
We are not currently recruiting. (although Konrad has been scouting for a new member)
I am going to an Extended PTQ tomorrow, so I need some quick critique on this deck:
4 Stasis
4 Kismet
4 Holwing Mine
4 Powder Keg
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Ensnare
4 Thwart
4 Impulse
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Spellbook
4 Tundra
4 Forsaken City
16 Island
Transformational sideboard:
3 Morphling
3 Masticore
9 good counterspells, what should they be?
Any comments?
Nick: You called me a "she" instead of "he" in one of your posts towards the end of the last thread :)
I think splashing red would be necessary in the R/G or TDD match-ups. FTK is incredible in the environment, and Fire/Ice is by far the best split card going. Here's the current version again:
14 Island
4 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
3 Air Elemental
4 Thought Devourer
4 Thought Eater
4 Thought Nibbler
4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Wash Out
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Repulse
4 Fire/Ice
3 Standstill
Wash Out is proving to be rather disappointing in what I've played with the deck so far. I might drop one for another Standstill, which is incredible. In game two against Nick, he played a spell, and I drew a Nibbler, Eater, and Air Elemental from the Standstill, though we both knew Nick was already beaten. What do you think to dropping a Wash Out?
(EDIT: Gabriel, I play 4 Gush in Stasis decks. I personally prefer mono-blue, though, so Gush may not be ideal, as I've never played a U/W version.)
Chilling_Apparition
11-30-01, 17:02
ed: D'oh! Sorry! Nothing intentional! I was thinking of my crush....
And no, please don't send me X rated photos proving you're a male...lol
Nick, I've been playing stasis for a while and this is what my deck has evolved into thus far:
2 Misdirection
2 Feldon's Cane
4 Counterspell
4 Boomerang
4 Stasis
4 Force of Will
4 Thwart
4 Howling Mine
4 Foil
4 Kismet
4 Forsaken City
4 Tundra
16 Island
Sideboard:
4 Chill
4 Pyroblast
3 Morphling
3 Masticore
1 Propaganda
Mike, it's Gabriel who is playing Stasis :) Also, why use Boomerang when there's Rescue? In my opinion, it is much better in here, as it only costs U. Very rarely do you need to return a permanent of your opponent's to their hand. Also, I've seen many versions of the deck with Chronotog as the kill, which works well, since you just skip your next turn at the end of all of their turns so they just get decked :D You never have to pay for Stasis again.
I would have agreed with you about Rescue in theory, but in playtesting I am returning an opposing permanant more than half the time, I'd say it's worth it. :)
Oh, and silly me, I meant Gabriel. :D
Chilling_Apparition
11-30-01, 19:04
Mike: I don't even play extended :)
Yes, Chronatog does work great in here to deck em....I've seen people at my shop use them. Also, Daze has been used by some guys I know.
Also, I just realized your not running Turnabout, which is extremely good in Stasis.
I used to play my Stasis deck with Iron Maiden for the kill card. Don't laugh, it worked extremely well for the kill!
Jeez, where is everybody? No one has posted for like 5 hours! I'm going to a type 1 tournament tomorrow, and I think I'm going to play Burn over Fluctuator ( :D ), so here's what I'm planning on taking:
18 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Ball Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Shock
4 Firebolt
4 Seal of Fire
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Rift
4 Fireblast
2 Landslide
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Fork
1 Black Vise
I decided to replace the Fanatics with Firebolts, because the Fanatics weren't just cutting it anymore. The are horribly slow and awful to draw in a deck like this that kills turns 4-5 average. Firebolt was originally going to go in in the place of Shock or Seal of Fire as it's clearly better in this deck for if it goes past the early game. Towards the later game, it can work as a Fireblast (dealing 4 damage for 4RR). Firebolt is very flexible and fits the deck perfectly. Also, my current sideboard is:
3 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Price of Progress
4 Anarchy
My metagame is extremely diverse, just about anything can pop up, so i just sideboard the necessities for the deck to survive. The blasts are against blue since it runs rampant in type 1, Anarchy for cards that rape my deck like Ivory Mask, Sanctimony, Warmth, CoP: Red, Story Circle, and many many more, and Price of Progress because it's so good in so many match-ups (I often find myself dealing the opponent 8 damage or so with it). I am wondering if Blazing Salvo is worth trying in the sideboard though. I've seen a few 10-land stompy decks around before, and many others, including Three Deuce and lots of rogue stuff. Blazing Salvo seems like it would fit right in. Maybe drop -3 Pyroblasts and -1 Anarchy for 4 Salvos?
Ed, I don't know much about T1, so I can't comment on your deck.
As you guys already know, I am on a never-ending quest to find new and interesting comboes. I think it would be fun to devote some time to finding comboes and then breaking them; we don't seem to be doing anything else...
I like this one that I made a T2 deck around once: Collective Unconscious, Saproling Symbiosis, Gaea's Cradle, Spontaneous Generation. I could add blue for Opposition, card drawing and counters, or red for Kaervek's Torch and Kyren Negotiations. Or just stay mono green and go for the Coat of Arms kill.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-01-01, 09:17
I played at a tourney today, and it was weird. First two rounds I play against teammates (which always sucks) and then I lose the next two in extremely close games. For example, in the one game I get out Serra Angel and he's on four. He only has land in hand and he topdecks an Obliterate. That sucked. :) So I went 2-2.
The deck I played was this:
4 Meddling Mage
4 Goblin Legionnare
4 Flametongue Kavu
2 Lightning Angel
2 Serra Angel (couldn't get 4 Lightning Angels)
3 Prophetic Bolt
1 Wrath of God
4 Fire/Ice
4 Repulse
4 Counterspell
4 Absorb
1 Goblin Trenches
23 Lands
I think that's right. However, that's not what I wanted to talk about. One of my teammates should have won the tournament but he was unlucky against me and I beat him round 2. However he won all his other games easily with this deck (potentially the best deck in T2 IMO):
4 Counterspell
4 Undermine
4 Syncopate
3 Force Spike
4 Fire/Ice
4 Recoil
3 Prophetic Bolt
2 Urza's Rage
1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
3 Duress?
4 Fact or Fiction
24 Lands
SB:
4 FLAMETONGUE KAVU
Something like that (I know there are cards missing).
I suggested this to him since I saw Chris Donovan's report of how he won NY States with a creatureless counterburn deck. Personally I think the U/B/R version is just better. The idea is simple. All their anti-creature spells are dead. For example look at my deck. 9 dead cards! That is an overwhelming advantage. In addition, if your opponent is not prepared for it, the Flametongue Kavu plan WILL wreck him. I'm not 100% sure how the deck would fair against G/R Beats since he didn't play against it, but my gut tells me the matchup is favorable. Sure the deck has 1 or 2 issues still but I believe that it is awesome.
Gabriel: If you want to work on a combo deck, I hear Zombie Upheaval with green and sac-lands for mana acceleration is pretty darn good.
Zombie Upheaval is a cool deck, but at States I beat it first round with The Dirty Deed. He got the first game after some bad draws on my hand, not to mention him getting 3 Repulses before the combo. Second game I sided in Kavu Chameleons and Spellbane Centaurs. Kavu Chameleon was huge, it was the card that beat him down. Third game, Chameleon comes out again, and we almost get to time. He gets the combo out, but I actually recover quick enough to get an Ebony Treefolk out for the kill. Deed for 0 hurts zombie tokens or so I hear :)
Another highlight in the matchup was during the third game, when he tried to Slay my Chameleon, not noticing my BoP was untapped :D
An Extended Nefarious Lich deck! I have finally (possibly) broken Nefarious Lich!
4 Confessor
4 Nef Lich
4 Skirge Familiar
1 Ghitu Fire
4 Vindicate
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Duress
4 Grim Monolith
4 Vampiric Tutor
2 Diabolic Tutor
4 Scrubland
4 Mox Diamond
4 Badlands
13 Swamp
That's an interesting deck, I really like how it looks. I actually agree with all of the card choices, except possibly Duress. But even then I'm not sure whether I'd want to take it out. I really wanan try this deck. If it works then I'm gonna start playing it. All I need are the Undermines.
Ed, that looks pretty good for a straight burn deck.
Chilling_Apparition
12-02-01, 12:57
Hey gabriel, I played Telim' Tor with your Little Kid Stompy. I beat his UB thingy 2-0 really bad. It's an amazing deck!
Ed: Looks like a great SLIGH deck :D j/k
looks good!
Nobody wants to comment on my Lich deck? If you were wondering, it uses Confessor, Nefarious Lich, and Skirge Familiar. Then, you discard a card to the Familiar, which gains you a life and a black mana, and draws you a card. You then discard that card, and do it again, until you have 20 mana, then Ghitu Fire for 20. You can even kill your opponent in response to him playing a spell, because all of these abilities are fast effects, and the Fire can be played as an instant.
Mike, I love you! :D I played your deck last night, and won my local tournament, netting half a box of Odyssey!
A few comments: the deck has the potential to beat anything.
I never boarded in the Excludes, or the Aven guys, but I boarded in the Gainsays every game.
Wild Mongrel is the best creature ever!!!! I played against three Infiltator decks, and not one of them realized that I could make the Mongrel black and block the Infiltator. One opponent tried to Slay it, and tried to block it with a Vodalian Zombie. It was beautiful!
Round 1: B/U/G Finkelsition
Game 1: I win the roll, and play first. I play 2nd turn Mongrel, he plays a Bird. I play turn 3 Standstill, he plays Infiltrator. I draw 3. I play turn 4 Gaea's Skyfolk with counter backup.
He attacks with the Infiltrator, and I block with the Mongrel, as he watches in horror. He then attempts to cast Opposition, and I counter it.
I attack, and end my turn. He plays a Deserted Temple. Then a Squirrel Nest, and I counter it. He plays another, and it resolves.
I keep attacking with the Skyfolk, and when he is at 2, he plays Overrun! I counter, he counters, I counter, he counters :( Game over.
Game 2: Basically the exact same thing as game 1, except he never played Finkel, and I played 2 Skyfolk instead of a Skyfolk and a Mongrel. He played Overrun at 4 life, and I didn't counter it. He attacked me, and I didn't block. He scratched his head, and counted up the damage that I would take. I would take 11, but I was at 13. He says "I am an idiot" and concedes the game.
Game 3: Nobody plays anything for a while. I eventually play Mongrel. He doesn't play anything that doesn't get countered for 7 turns. I then FoF, and take the 3 land pile, and attack for the win by discarding my hand.
Round 2: a cool Rice Snack
Game 1: I counter his important spells, and kill with a Titan and a Skyfolk.
Game 2: I draw nothing but creatures, and he drops a Deed. I topdeck a Rushing River, and return the Deed. I attack him down to 6. He plays it again, and blows it for 2. I topdeck a Mongrel, and discard my hand to win it the turn before he would combo me out.
Round 3: U/B Finkelsition
Game 1: Nothing exciting came from his side. I basically countered all of his stuff except for an Opposition. I kill him, him having never successfully cast a creature all game.
Game 2: 2 Finkels resolve, on turn 4 and 5, and I Rushing River them both, all the while attacking with my turn 2 Skyfolk. I then counter one of the Infiltrators, and the other resolves, but I Repulse it during his attack phase. I kill him in 10 turns with the Skyfolk.
Round 4, finals: B/U/G Finkelsition
We decided to only play one game because we all wanted to draft.
He plays turn 3 Spellbane Centaur, and I play a turn 5 Kavu Titan with kicker, which he strangely doesn't have a counter for. He plays a Squirrel Nest, and I play another Titan with Kicker. He plays another Squirrel Nest. I attack with both, and he takes 7, blocking with 3 Squirrels. I play a Rushing River on the Squirrel Nests, and keep attacking with the Titans. He dies in 2 turns after I counter both of the Nests.
Obviously this deck beats Finkel! I would suggest adding a 4th Mongrel. I played 2 Standstill in the board, and I boarded them in for the FoFs every game. They were much better. I would even play them main over the FoFs, with maybe the FoFs in the board.
Great job, Gabriel!
My deck played out awfully. *sigh* Before the tournament, it was playing Godlike. Only 9 people showed up, so there were 3 rounds. First round I played against a black control-type deck with other splashes for certain cards. I lost badly due to drawing a total of I think 7 land through both games. Second round I had a bye :rolleyes: Third round I played against G/R beatdown, and I got slaughtered, also due to drawing a total of I think only 5 land both games then. The deck just sucked, it plays so much better when I'm not in a tournament for some stupid reason. Mana screw, of all things! I used to run only 15 land, now I run 19 and get screwed even worse!
Anyways, in the plus side, I built a 5-color deck! The format is awesome, I love it! I recommend you guys try it out. The deck doesn't have to be competitive, just casual that you can play against other 5-color decks. Go to www.5-color.com if you want more info on the banned/restricted lists and stuff. I will post my current decklist (it is missing a lot of stuff that I don't have yet, but will go in once I get them) later (too much typing for now :) )
Chilling_Apparition
12-02-01, 15:03
Congrats Gabriel!
That sux ed, SLIGH is a great deck (lol, :D j/k) My butterknives always did that, in goldfish and appr it was great, even pre-tourney games, then in the tourneys i always got mana screwed or never drew enough control....
I'm so glad my deck's doing well! I think we definetly need to fit in that fourth Wild Mongrel, I was finding that to be the best creature also. How about removing one of the Kavu Titans? That seemed to be the weakest creature, and one would still give the deck a nice finisher. I'm hesitent about the Standstill thing. I guess we could try taking out 1 Fact or Fiction maindeck for a third one and see how it works, but I am really against taking out both Fact or Fictions for them.
Anyway, I played my sligh deck at a 1.5 tournament today, and went 4-1. The game I lost, there was really no plausible way I could have won it even with a god draw. Here is the decklist:
1 Hammer of Bogardan
2 Seal of Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Incinerate
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Cadets
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Jackal Pup
4 Ball Lightning
1 Shivan Gorge
20 Mountain
Sideboard:
4 Pyroblast
4 Anarchy
4 Bottle Gnomes
3 Guerrila Tactics
Round 1
playing counter burn
Game 1: I beat him down with a turn 1 Jackal Pup and burn him out by turn 6 (he counters a couple of the burn spells, but can't seem to find anything to deal with Jackal Pup).
Game 2: I play turn 1 Pup, turn 2 Goblin Cadets. He burns the Pups, but my Cadets go all the way assisted by burn, again by turn 6. He wasn't the greatest player and made several mistakes.
1-0
Round 2
playing U/g Permission
Game 1: I maul him with a turn 4 kill, all he does is counter a turn 4 chain lightning.
Game 2: He gets 2nd turn Chill, 3rd turn Chill, 4th turn Chill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is this?!?!?
Game 3: He gets 2nd turn Chill, 3rd turn Chill, 4th turn Chill, I am by now seriously considering that he could be cheating, but I say whatever and blow it off.
1-1
Round 3
playing white weenie
Game 1: I play first turn Jackal Pup, he plays Mother of Runes. I burn it and attack, he plays another creature, I burn it and attack. It goes like that for the rest of the game. He gets out a Worship eventually but I am dealing with all of his creatures (including pro red) with Cursed Scroll by now. A Mogg Fanatic joins the Pup and I win.
Game 2: He gets out a Mother of Runes, Paladin En-Vec, 2 Soltari Priests, Crusade, and Glorious Anthem. All I have is a Cursed Scroll and 2 Mogg Fanatics. But I finally get the fourth mountain and play Anarchy. He can't get back fast enough to stop a Ball Lighting, my Fanatics, and a pair of Fireblasts.
2-1
Round 4
playing white weenie
Game 1: He only gets two lands the whole game and they are Gemstone Mines. My pup, cadets, ball lightning, and fireblast have a field day.
Game 2: He gets out two Worships but I keep burning his creatures with a pair of scrolls. I get him down to 3 with two Goblin Cadets, and then he plays COP: Red. But my Cursed Scrolls kill him the next turn.
Round 5
playing G/R sligh/stompy
Game 1: He burns my first turn Jackal Pup and I burn his first turn Kird Ape. I then play a Goblin Cadets and start attacking. Eventually he gets out Ernham Djinn, which starts giving me fits as he also plays a river boa. But I incinerate the Boa and Fireblast/Seal of Fire the Djinn. Then I play a Ball Lightning followed by a Chain Lightning for the win.
Game 2: my first three creatures are burnt, and so are his first two. But then he gets out an Ernham Djinn with Rancor as I continue to draw land. All I get is a Fanatic for a while, and his Ernham wins.
Game 3: He plays first turn Kird Ape, I play first turn Pup. He burns the Pup and plays a Ghazban Ogre. I Bolt the Ape and him, therefore getting me the Ogre. So I attack with that and a topdecked Goblin Cadets for a while until he plays the dreaded Ernham Djinn. But luckily I have him down to 10, so I chump block for a while until I have burnt him out with Fireblasts and Chain Lightnings.
So I got 3rd place and 10$. Not bad but I woulda liked to win that round 2.
Chilling_Apparition
12-02-01, 20:36
Mike, that guy with the sixtuple chill was a cheater. I mean :
if you have 4 chills in a 60 card deck, you have a 1/15 chance of drawing 1. So, 1/15 X 1/15 X 1/15 would be a 1/3,375 chance, and that happening 2 games in a row is a 1/11,390,625 chance. With luck like that he ought to go play the lotto.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-03-01, 04:54
Well done to everyone who played in tournaments recently, even Ed. :) j/k
4 Confessor
4 Nef Lich
4 Skirge Familiar
1 Ghitu Fire
4 Vindicate
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Duress
4 Grim Monolith
4 Vampiric Tutor
2 Diabolic Tutor
4 Scrubland
4 Mox Diamond
4 Badlands
13 Swamp
That looks interesting. I would suggest something that makes him lose life as the kill instead of Ghitu Fire though, since that gets around prevention and redirection. It looks like the loss of Ritual really hurts though. How good is the deck? Is it more or less up to tournament standard? Is it worth working on?
I went to a PTQ yesterday. I came 17th (top 16 get prizes) out of 74 people. A lot of the big names in South African Magic were there. My sealed deck was not too bad, and I reckon I should have gone 6-2 at least but went 5-3 instead. Little errors are creeping into my games and that's often infuriating. I'm not playing as well as I can but I'll move on and not make the same mistakes twice.
Chilling_Apparition
12-03-01, 12:19
Congrats Konrad! I go to the JSS in 6 days, so perhaps I'll T8, or even better, win or take second and bring our team some fame at nats :D but I doubt that woudl happen. I'm taking BGr TDD.
Oh, and my math was wrong, I forgot that there was no replacement, so the chances are EVEN LESS!
Congrats to all other tourney-goers :)
Also, where is Andy? He has yet to post on this thread.
I wish we had 1.5 over type 1 here. I would love to play against such non-broken decks as Counter-Burn and WW :)
Ya, I love 1.5, it's a format where you can make just about any deck and it actually does decently if you build it well enough. There aren't any broken decks.
And you are probably right Nick. I played that guy once before and in the 2nd and 3rd game he got 2nd turn COP: Red 3rd turn Bottle Gnomes. That's not quite as unlikely, but those are the only two times I've played him.
Do you guys think that 1 Ghitu Fire might be worth running in our t2 sligh deck? I was thinking about replacing the lone Volcanic Hammer with it.
Chilling_Apparition
12-03-01, 19:43
Just do what I told you to do over AIM next time.
Andy's active, I've been talking to him over AIM the past few days.
terraformer51
12-04-01, 00:31
Originally posted by Proscrypt
Also, where is Andy? He has yet to post on this thread.
I've been posting frequently on the Millstone thread what do you mean where am I :confused:?
Anyway, I scrubbed out at a PTQ for Osaka last weekend (played PT Junk, went 1-2, beat a random WW deck, lost to Benzo and a Wildfire deck) and almost received a game loss in the process due to a new rule I didn't know about. Apparently, you can't write notes before a match and consult them during the match :(. The judges were lenient and only gave me a warning, but I figured I would let you guys know so it doesn't happen to you :p.
Has anyone seen the "new" MTGnews member "Terraformer's Mom" :eek:? *sigh* I haven't even been a moderator for a month yet and I'm already making enemies :(. I'm pretty sure I know who it is, and I must say I'm somewhat pissed off about it, but oh well....
LOL, Terraformer's Mom? Classic! Who do you think it is?
That really sucks that you lost, Andy. I am intrigued though, what's a Benzo deck? I've never heard of it. And that's strange that you lost to Wildfire, I assume you never drew a Duress or Deed. If that's not the case, then I'm :confused:
The team seems to be moving rather slowly, should we discuss something else?
Yawgmoth's Father
12-04-01, 06:07
As far as I know, Benzo is the reanimator deck that uses Squee and Zombie Infestation.
Gabriel, is there anything you'd like to discuss? :)
BTW, the way Illusions Donate just dominates time and time again is amazing. It was the best, then they banned Mana Vault (and Mox Diamond?). Then it survived that and Ritual was banned. It got past that until eventually Necro was banned. People thought it wouldn't make it past that, but once again it's dominating in Extended. I don't think that its gonna die until Illusions is banned. Its current form is cool though. Its not broken but it's a Tier 1 deck.
Chilling_Apparition
12-04-01, 10:02
That sux andy, and so does the name thingy.
And we should start discussing stuff, what should we discuss? I think we could discuss thought stompy a bit...
Yawgmoth's Father
12-04-01, 14:04
I'm a bit hestitant to discuss a deck that loses to every deck that runs Flametongue Kavu (that's more or less right, isn't it, Ed?).
What about working on Domain? The more I think about it, the cooler it sounds. I mean, unless I'm missing something drastic here, it's pretty much the perfect deck. In IBC, Domain was one of the only decks that could beat R/G Beats (before Apocalypse shook things up a bit). It doesn't have to run any creatures maindeck (I'm thinking Zombie Infestation + Upheaval for the kill maindeck and Spiritmongers or 'Griffs sideboard) because of the power of Pernicious Deed and Collective Restraint. And face it, Allied Strategies for 5 is pretty darn near broken. It can also run Evasive Action and Duress for disruption. So why isn't it being played? (It's perfectly possible that I'm just talking bull**** here and that domain would actually suck, but if so I'm missing the reason totally at the moment. :))
terraformer51
12-04-01, 14:06
In a creature-dominant field without much disruption, Domain might very well be viable. In a control-oriented field with disruption and countermagic, I can't see domain as a playable archetype, but I'd be willing to give it a try if other people want to.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-04-01, 14:15
Well see that's the thing. No-one in his right mind would describe the current environment as a control-oriented. :)
I dunno, its just a very rogue idea that I've been tossing around in my mind. I can't possibly design a deck as complex as this without help that's why I don't have a working version yet. Just tell me if you guys want to work on it. :)
Originally I looked at the decklist for Rice Snacks and thought..."Hmmm, this looks cool" but I don't have Early Harvests. So I looked at alternatives, and Zombie Infestation/Upheaval immediately came to mind. Domain is good at stalling and putting out a lot of lands, and that's what ZI/Up wants to do. It wants to get to 8 mana and then win. I think if we build it into the Domain foundation, it will be better than any U/B ZI/Up deck.
terraformer51
12-04-01, 14:32
*shrugs* OK, I'll wait to see what the others say before passing further judgement :D.
Also, I found an article by Jarrod Bright on Brainburst, which covers a version of TDD that he is playing. It's very well written and a good read....I question some of his card choices (i.e. no Call of the Herd and using 4 Jade Leeches), but I'll leave it to you to decide :p:
http://www.brainburst.com/strategy/type2/odyssey/011128.asp
Tough luck Andy, I didn't know about that rule either, I guess it's so you don't know what to sideboard or something (you could write it down I guess).
I personally don't like domain decks because I like all of my decks to be really consistent. But I am perfectly willing to work on it if we want to, I just won't play it in real life.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-04-01, 15:25
Well, I gather that you are willing, yet somewhat reluctant to work on the deck. What do you guys think of the actualy idea itself, regardless of whether you like Domain decks?
Chilling_Apparition
12-04-01, 15:39
I've got it! Work on BUGwr Rice Snack! I've tested TDD vs. it, and it actually is fast enough to win unless you pull a great hand, and renders Deed and FTK useless. I say we try that.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-04-01, 15:47
I guess we could try that, but personally I'm against that for 2 reasons.
1. It's already been done. Rice Snack has been perfected (almost). I'd rather work on something new...that's the purpose of a DBG after all.;)
2. Ok, totally selfish of me but I don't have access to Early Harvests (and its frickin' hard to get singles in South Africa). :)
Chilling_Apparition
12-04-01, 16:38
yeah, you got a good point. there's no sense in working on an already perfected deck...
Maybe instead of making a new deck we should do more testing of TDD, UG, and UWR/WRu vs. Rice Snack, UGr, and a few others...
I think Domain has potential, but not enough to make it a tier 1 deck. I just think that aggresive decks will have it so low on life once it finally gets the mana to cast its spells, and control decks will already have massive cards advantage, plenty of counters, and many of domain's cards will be dead vs the deck.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-05-01, 07:32
Well, I guess Domain's not going to happen then (even though I will be working on it). I just think the purpose of a DBG is to build new decks. We built TDD and that's great, but we haven't exactly built anything else since then. We need to stay one step ahead of the metagame, not on top of it. Talking about decks like Snaketongue and Rice Snack is not productive, since those decks are almost perfect. We need to keep working on decks that are ahead of the competition.
So, does anyone have any other ideas for decks that are still in their infancy? (I have a couple, but I'd like to hear from you guys)
Chilling_Apparition
12-05-01, 10:32
yes, actually I do have an idea. We could try working on a BRg machinehead deck. Me and scott were talking just a bit about that last night, along with testing snake tongue vs. TDD (TDD went 1-0, and game 2 was extremely close and we didn't get to finish). I'm sure Andy would also like to work on that.
Really quickly, just thought I should point out that I at least had mentioned Snake Tongue in the context of its being a deck that we should test *against*, not really with. Just thought I should point that out :)
Anyway, I know that Andy and I have a few ideas, but no one has seemed interested in working on them whenever we've posted :( On my end, we've got Machine Head (which I've wanted to test for a long time now :)), BWG Millstone/Echoes, UBR CounterBurn (either near-creatureless or creatureless), an Upfestation that splashes red for maindeck Fire/Ice and boarded Rages (this isn't really big, just some "minor" changes that might make a big difference in performance), either GRW or GWU Holistic Wisdom control (anywhere between Draw-Go and Utility Beats depending on which color is splashed) (could even make an argument for GWB and get some Mongers in there, along with some Deed recursion :)) (could also run a pure DrawGo recycling Absorbs and the like with a lot of card drawing and Beast Attack as a recursive win condition), a UBR Braids deck similar to the one I played awhile ago in that team tourney (if the metagame is, in fact, shifting away from RG, which is might be), Big Blue (probably splashing green for some combination of Snakes, CotH, and Jungle Barrier), RG LD with Holistic Wisdom to continue fueling of mid and late-game LD, a Domain Control with FTK and CotH/Beast Attack/Phelddagrif/Mystic Enforcer/Spiritmonger for the kill, BRu Machine Head-esque (more similar to Headless Machine, if any of you remember that one :)) with less critters, more removal/card advantage, and blue splash for a few key cards, like FoF and Recoil...there are a lot of other ideas as well, but those are a few offhand ;) I know we've got a couple of people interested in work on Thought Stompy, and who knows what else...
We just need to pick a deck and start working on it right away, or we'll never get anywhere :(
Yawgmoth's Father
12-05-01, 10:55
Ok, I agree that we have to pick something. Here's what I think has potential...
Holistic Wisdom (like the LD idea)
Domain (with ZI/Upheaval for the kill)
A Removal heavy B/R/u variant of Machine-Head
Personally, those are decks that I'd be both interested in working on, and that are more or less fresh and innovative.
The B/W/G Millstone/Echoes deck might be good, but I don't find it stimulating or exciting.
I'm fine with any deck we want to work on, just give the word and up goes the thread.
I have two issues that I brought up but no one addressed. They are:
1) Should one Ghitu Fire be added into sligh in place of the lone Volcanic Hammer. I think the deck generates enough mana, especially with our addition of Keldon Necropolis, to make it more worthwhile, especially as a finisher, than Volcanic Hammer.
2) What might we take out for a fourth Wild Mongrel maindeck in the U/G tempo deck? I was considering one Kavu Titan because that seems like the least needed other creature.
terraformer51
12-05-01, 13:24
Mike, I would probably agree that it's not worth running only 1 volcanic hammer, and that 1 ghitu fire would be better.
As for creatures to take out to fit a 4th mongrel, titan would be best. Do you really need a 4th mongrel though? I don't think you do, but I'm not familiar enough with your deck to know for sure.
I'm not really interested in Domain or LD, but I would definitely be interested in some kind of creature-light/creatureless Machinehead deck. Straight B/R is not good enough (IMHO)....so, we basically have to decide between BRg, BRw, and BRu.
-I honestly think that if we wanted to play BRg we'd be better off with TDD.
-BRw has two spells in particular that go very well with the machinehead theme, gerrard's verdict and vindicate. The question is what to use for a finisher if we go creature-light, and I guess pyre zombie would be the best option but I don't know for sure.
-BRu would have the cards Scott suggested: recoil, and fire/ice (well, both halves of it :D), and possibly FoF and Finkel for card-drawing and crosis for a finisher. prophetic bolt also might be worth looking into.
I guess it comes down to whether we like BRw or BRu better. I think they're both worth looking into.
Domain-based Zombie Upheaval, that is a great idea! I would definitely love to work on that. Domain is both good and fun to play, and backed by Zombie Upheaval would be truly cool. I'm going to jump at it and throw out a decklist that could combine the decks:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Lay of the Land
4 Harrow
3 Collective Restraint
4 Evasive Action
4 Worldly Counsel
4 Allied Strategies
1 Overgrown Estate
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Upheaval
4 Zombie Infestation
20 Land
Remember, that is an on-the-spot list :)
I think a U/W/G Draw-Go deck would be cool, as previously mentioned, with Holistic Wisdom, using Beast Attack for the kill and recycling your Absorbs to keep yourself from dying.
So U/W/G Draw-Go, Domain-Zombie Upheaval, and Thought Stompy are the decks that I would personally like to work on. But whatever goes, I guess I will work on.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-07-01, 01:54
Huh? Weird....looks like a bunch of posts got either deleted or moved:confused:
I used the "split thread" option to seperate all the posts relevant to R/B/u Machinehead from this thread into a new thread, so we wouldn't have to keep glancing back here to see what we've done with it so far :)......Andy
Ed, I'm glad to see that at least someone is willing to work on the Domain ZI/Up design with me. I happen to think the deck has a lot of potential since it should be far easier to combo off with ZI/Up. (I've been coming up with some cool ideas lately IMO) :)
Your decklist is pretty good for an on-the spot decklist.
The only changes I can think of immediately (before playtesting) is to take out the Overgrown Estate (you want to get more lands in play, not sac them) and to put in Rampant Growths instead of Lay of the Land. Oh and I considered Birds, but I thought that with 4 Deeds they are just going to die before you can combo off.
I would replace them with lands. :)
However, I have to work on this for a bit before I can come up with anything else. Problem is...I'm going on holiday today (for the next 10 days) so I won't really be able to work on it. Besides, there are other Evil Plans that I am working on. Hopefully when I get back I'll be able to share a good decklist with you. So far it beats G/R Beats, Snake-Tongue, Rice Snack, Machine-Head and Finkula. So far so good. :)
Chilling_Apparition
12-07-01, 09:39
NOOOOOOO!!!
We can't wait 10 days! tell us now! lol
Everyone, check out the Duel of the DBG's thread I started. And we need to choose 5 reps for our team. Obviously since it's my idea I get to be in. so we need to choose 4 others. IMO we should vote.
If it happens, Andy should definetly be one of our guys. :)
Have fun Konrad.
I'm going bowling tonight, oh ya, mabye I'll break 144. :D
Don't vote for me, I'm not into much of the fighting stuff that goes on there. I'm just a moderator who keeps things in order :)
Good point about Birds and the Estate, Konrad. Revision:
3 Collective Restraint
4 Rampant Growth
4 Harrow
4 Evasive Action
4 Worldly Counsel
4 Allied Strategies
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Upheaval
4 Zombie Infestation
21 Land
It contains all the necessary elements as far as I can see to work, all we need to do is test it I suppose.
Also, I bet the deck Konrad is talking about is the U/B/R creatureless control deck he posted earlier. But I could be wrong, that's just my best guess.
Wait a second, let my feeble brain comprehend this....
You are playing Domain, but only 3 Collective Restraint?????
Head hurts, world spinning....
Chilling_Apparition
12-07-01, 18:28
lol Gabriel.
4 Collective Restraint is a must Ed...
Yes, Andy and Scott should automatically be in :D
Oh and Ed, the custom is great one...from a NIN song I guess? I gotta see if I can make meself a new tag too....Too bad only mods can use VB code :(
So Nick, Scott, and Andy should play. Does anyone else want to?
That's cool with me.
Time to go bowling. :)
What do you guys think of my counter oath deck?
1 Morphling
1 Spike Weaver
1 Spike Feeder
1 Fact or Fiction
2 Sylvan Library
3 Forbid
3 Gaea's Blessing
3 Mana Leak
4 Impulse
4 Oath of Druids
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Wasteland
2 Treetop Village
3 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Yavimaya Coast
10 Island
Mike, I just went 2-0 in the Clan tourney with your U/G deck! I am now convinced that it is definitely a Tier 1 deck. :)
As for your Oath deck, I think you should take out a Gaea's Blessing for a Crater Hellion.
Chilling_Apparition
12-07-01, 22:32
OK, so for reps we have:
Me
Scott
Andy
Gabriel
Mike
As for division, you and gabriel like UG and it kicks some ass, so you two take UG, and us three will take TDD. TDD and UG are our best decks IMO.
And right now, I'm organizing what teams will be in, and just am gonna wait for the other tournies to end before I start the DBG duel, since yet another tourney would be too much.
33 hours, 35 minutes and 24 seconds till I leave for the JSS! lol.
The tag is from a NIN instrumental called "Ripe (With Decay)" :)
I hesitated to run 4 Restraints because the nature of the deck isn't a control-type domain. It is concentrated on getting the combo out as quick as possible and winning, with only domain's control elements as backing. But remember, it was just a draft, so 4 Restraints is quite possible.
Mike, I don't know much about Counter-Oath, but I agree with Gabriel to adding a Crater Hellion, when I've watched extended match-ups, I've seen it do well in the deck. There may be a good explanation for this, but why only 1 Fact or Fiction?
The reason for only having 1 FoF, if any, is because the objective of the deck is to play a very early Oath. You can't afford to spend 4 mana on anything.
Ah, I see. I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut about Oath then :)
Gabriel hit the mark, that was my reason.
And good job Gabriel, I am also now convinced that it's tier 1. I'm gonna us UG tempo again tomorow so I'll let you guys know how it goes.
And does Crater Hellion actually work well? I can't see how that's any better than a Spike Weaver for anti creature stuff. I'd rather run an extra Weaver than that I think.
Let me put it this way, Mike: would you rather hold off all of your opponent's creatures for 3 turns (it will probably get burned/killed/bounced before then anyway), or kill every creature in play except your Morphling? The Weaver merely stalls creatures, Hellion flat out destroys them.
Ya, but the Weaver goes in a little loop thing. Whenever he dies, you just oath him out again. And Spike Feeder can prolong his standoff. And Crater Hellion is a dead card in your hand.
I have an important issue to discuss. I've talked with Nick, and we both think that Card Shark would be a very good 8th member for the team. I'd like to hear what you all think about this, and we shouldn't rush into a decision. If anyone doesn't want him, then we won't, but I certainly think he would be a good addition.
If the Hellion gets stuff in your hand, Forbid him into the grave, or Brainstorm him where he belongs.
About the infinite loop, Crater Hellion has echo! :D That's why it really shines. Just don't pay echo, and you can Oath him back. 4 damage to all creatures every other turn is pretty good.
Card Shark, eh? I'll listen to what everyone else says before I make a judgement.
Just don't pay echo, and you can Oath him back
How would I pay echo? :D
LOL, that's true, but the point is moot because you wouldn't be paying it anyway, even if you could.
Chilling_Apparition
12-08-01, 20:54
I say card shark is definitely a good member for the team. I've been friends with him for a few months now (and he lives pretty close too, only like 1 1/2 hrs. away). He's a great player, and knows a lot about magic. If any of you wanna talk to him, his AIM is Card Shark the IV.
I would definitely vote him in.
No one has posted for 10 hours! :D
Gabriel, I'll try it out and see how it goes.
Everyone else besides me and Nick (and Gabriel if he wants to wait and see), we need your votes about Card Shark.
Must..... find..... something..... to...... say.....
So.... what do you guys think of the Holistic Wisdom deck on the Roguedeckers thread? I think it is a really great idea, but I have a different direction.
I think we should make an LD Holistic Wisdom deck, with a whole bunch of sorcerys. Then we could either use sorcery burn or Magnivore for the kill. We could also use white for Wrath, which also happens to be a sorcery.
eh, I don't like the card all that much. But land destruction I guess is possible. I think mono red would be the best, but a green red deck might also work.
It would have to be G/R, because Holistic Wisdom is a green card.
I like the idea, but I think Holistic Wisdom has better uses, like as Konrad mentioned, in a U/W/G Draw-Go deck, bringing back Beast Attacks for the kill and Absorbs to help stay on top of your life total.
I don't want to decide on Card Shark yet, either. I have yet to see if he has any real talent on building decks by himself.
If we had a new member, I can think of a few people I would probably want over Card Shark.
Just one quick thing about Crater Hellion: You probably won't be able to Oath him up every other turns, because chances are pretty good that, when he hits play, there won't be any creatures left on the board to activate Oath. In fact, if you aren't careful, you could end up activating Oath for them by taking out all of their creatures and leaving only your Morphling on the board. If it doesn't wipe the table of all the creatures (leaving something like the best fattie ever or Spiritmonger on the table), then chances are also fairly good that the critter is large enough that Spike Weaver would be infinitely better in its spot. Just my opinion. I also happen to like the UGw, UGr, UGwb, UGwr, and UGwbr versions of Oath better than the straight UG version...but that's your choice as well :) I'd recommend some Flood Plains, or some other land that searches for either Islands or Forests in there, for some more deck thinning and the ability to shuffle more often after a Brainstorm or a bad set or cards from a Library. The added bonus would be that, even if you don't have a lot of duals to fetch out, you could drop in a basic land or two of a given type and use that as a basis by which to splash in a third color. Just a thought... :)
As for Card Shark, I'm with Justin on this one. I just haven't seen enough of his work to know either way what to think about him. There are others that would like to join the team as well, keep in mind; I might recommend that we wait on Konrad to hear his opinion on the matter.
Just so you know, Justin is Planeshifter2...I'm assuming from the context of your post you meant Ed ;).
-Andy
Scott, good point about the oath mixup with crater hellion. I think I'll stick to Weaver, Feeder, and Morphling. And just to point it out, Card Shark told me that Flood Plains searches for plains and islands, not forests. :D
And I'm sticking with blue and green because I actually play this in type 1.5, I just figured I'd get more response to my deck if I posted it as extended. :)
In extended I would add white for enlightened tutors and seal of cleansings.
Scott: How dare you! ;) It's okay.
If anyone's interested, I just posted the green cards for my new set, Incursion, here:
http://forums.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?threadid=46050
I have already posted black, blue, gold, and artifact/land, which are somewhere around MTGnews. Now all I have to go is red and white flavor texts, then it's done. Any critique on the cards is welcome, thanks.
Chilling_Apparition
12-09-01, 21:11
Tournament Report
JSS Qualifier at The Only Game in Town in Hillsborough/Belle Mead, NJ
51 Participants
December 9, 2001
Well, it's JSS qualifier time. This was my first qualifier, but I had lots of confidence, packing a basically unheard of deck that smashes 70% of the decks in the format to pieces. Two of my teammates (Andrew Lambe and Scott Lesser) created the B/G version of the deck back in the old T2, but it was never really viable compared to the unbelievably fast Fires and far too controlling Millstone and Probe-Go decks. But after Masques was out, BG soared as far as power goes, and we ended up working on a B/G/r version, one that, like almost every deck out there, uses Flametongue Kavu and Urza's Rage.
Here's mine:
Creatures (20)
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Spiritmonger
4 Ebony Treefolk
4 Flametongue Kavu
Noncreature Spells (16)
4 Duress
4 Terminate
4 Call of the Herd
4 Pernicious Deed
Land (24)
2 Karplusian Forest
2 Darigaaz's Caldera
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
7 Forest
SB: 4 Kavu Chameleon
SB: 4 Urza's Rage
SB: 3 Slay
SB: 2 Hull Breach
SB: 1 Spellbane Centaur
SB: 1 Destructive Flow
The maindeck was complete, but the sideboard had some obvious weakness, which turned good and bad. The Hull Breaches NEVER were sided in, neither were the flows, and I've concluded that Spellbane Centaur does almost nothing vs. UGr Opposition. It just becomes FTK/Fire/Ice bait.
So, here's how it went:
Round 1:
vs. Nick Fiorillo (whom I ended making friends with) playing U/G Opposition
Game 1: We both get quick starts, but when he slaps down 2 COTH tokens, and a kickered Kavu Titan it looks like I'm screwed (obviously). But just in time, I topdeck a deed blow up everything. A Monger and an FTK take the game, though they're stalled for a bit by a Squirrel Nest. I win.
Game 2: This time he screws up my first couple threat drops and slaps down 2 Kavu Titans, and a single COTH token. Fact or Fiction makes things worse. And then, straight out of nowhere, comes in Opossition (First game I thought he was playing Tempo, with Nest as pretty nifty anti-creature tech). Deed saves my ass again (I LOVE Pernicious Deed). He builds up some counters and an answer for my FTK, but a Kavu Chameleon hit plays and goes in for the kill.
I'm 1-0 in matches, 2-0 in games.
Round 2:
vs. Some kid playing a weird as hell G/W Junk/Worship deck.
Game 1: Out of the 16 cards I draw all game, 10 are lands. That'd be good if I were playing Rice Snack! I lose of course, due to a double Voice of All army.
Game 2: This time I get a great draw. I smash him in like 6 turns.
Game 3: This time I get another great draw ( as in, 1st turn birds, second, third, fourth, fifth turn COTH (2 and 2 flashback) and a FTK and Monger), but he manages to generate lots of squirrel tokens (I really hate Squirrel Nest, the whole tourney I only play 1 deck that DOESN't use them!) and play Worship. Deed busts me out of the lock and hit for too many points of damage.
I'm 2-0 in matches and 4-1 in games.
Round 3:
vs. Scott McIsaacson
- This match was a feature match ( I got to be the chump that loses to the guy with a really high DCI score), so instead of covering it, just go to TOGIT.com to see the in-depth. I lost to him 2-1.
I'm 2-1 in matches, 5-3 in games.
Round 4:
Now's my chance to up my win % some more and make it to T8.
vs. Some guy with an odd B/G deck, actually very good, with some VERY odd choices (squirrel nest and Phyrexian Rager)
Game 1: I get a really big swarm of FTKs, COTH tokens, and a Spiritmonger to dish some pain. His annoying Squirrel Nest buys him a lot of time, but I manage to keep off his fatties with Terminate and FTK, and stop the nests with a Deed and go in for the win.
Game 2: This is the exact same, almost exactly the same. Except I draw a Terminate and Slay to destroy his Nut Collector (????) and Spiritmonger that were taking me down. Then it turns into game 1 around turn 6, and I win the same way.
I'm 3-1 in matches, 7-3 in games.
Round 5:
vs. some guy packing a UGr Snake Tongue deck.
Game 1: I go, first turn Llanowar Wastes, second turn Llanowar Wastes, third turn Wastes, andfourth turn Sulfurous Springs. I have so many painlands that I take over 6 damage:(
So I have no chance of winning the damage race.
Game 2: This time, he takes the upper hand, and Deed comes out to save my ass for the ten millionth time today (noticing a pattern?). A Spiritmonger and Ebony Treefolk beat him down for the win.
Game 3: All his 4 lands (he gets mana screwed) were painlands. His Squirrel Nest holds me for a while. Eventually though I bust through with an 8/8 monger and Ebony Treefolk.
I'm 4-1 in matches, 9-4 in games.
Round 6:
vs. Mike McGee, who attended the JSS Worlds last year. He's playing UGr Opposition.
Game 1: This is almost a joke. I get out 3x FTK, 2x Ebony Treefolk, and a Spiritmonger, but he's got Opposition and 9 tokens out. There goes any hope of me having untapped permanents...
Game 2: I get a second turn Spellbane Centaur, but he's not afraid, and just Fire/Ice's it. We're pretty much even and Deed keeps me alive. But during the match, he realizes that the person whom I'm tied with, ? Chen, has a deck that will kill him, and make it almost impossible for McGee to win. So he ends up drawing with me for us to both make T8 with 13 points, and drop Chen to 9th place.
I'm 4-1-1 in matches, 9-5 in games, and finish 6th and make T8.
T8 Playoffs, round 1:
vs. Justin ?, playing U/G/r Snake-Tongue/Opposition blend.
Game 1: I have this one all in the bag, or so it appears. FTK's and COTH tokens everywhere. His counters keep Spiritmonger and Ebony Treefolk off the board. A swarm of Squirrels (I HATE Squirrel Nest) hold him alive at 2 life, and he comes in with some COTHs and FTKs of his own, tapping my creatures with Opposition and the damn tokens.
Game 2: He takes and early opposition lock, but Deed blows it up, and I FTK the FTK that FTKed my FTK 8-D. Yet another lock is set up, and he's at 7, I've got a Kavu Chameleon and a COTH token on the board, double Urza's Rage in hand, and 11 lands at 18 life. He makes a great comeback with some Mystic Snake combat tricks, and eventually beats me in before I draw a land to kickered Rage him :( .
So I finish T8, 6th in the regular competition. I take home a Foil City of Brass ($30 value), Foil Elvish Lyrist ($8 value) and 9 packs of Odyssey. All in all I had a great time, won some decent Prizes (about $65), and had a great showing with one of the best, and most secret decks in T2.
Oh, and a side note, Squirrel Nest is annoying. Out of the 7 decks I played, 5 played Squirrel Nest. Pernicious Deed is just a great answer to that.
And one last irrelevant thing. While I was there, someone called the store and was asking about me. I was actually creeped out when I asked the lady there and she said it wasn't my parents or any family. I thought I was being stalked or something. Turns out it was Jon (Card Shark). lol.
Very nice job! It seems that everything in the deck worked as it is supposed to. I wasn't surprised that you drew too many painlands in one game, you do have 10, that's almost half the mana supply. So you got the foil city? :)
Chilling_Apparition
12-09-01, 21:41
yeah, the 10 hurt sometimes, but they keep away the chances of me having a tempo loss due to Taplands. Should I drop 2 Karplusian Forest for 2 Mossfire Valley?
Nice job, Nick!! Sorry that you got locked out of finishing even higher by the failure to draw just one more land though :(
As for the land balance, I'd use Shadowblood Ridge, not Mossfire Valley. You're running a higher proportion of green sources, so that's less of an issue; Ridge allows for the casting of Terminate without chance of mana burn, which is important. You don't need red mana at the same time as green mana at any point, but you will need red at the same time as black at some times; further, green you'll often need as an independent source, which you can't say as often of Duress. Personally I'm using 10 painlands anyway right now though...but that's because I still like two Cabal Pit ;) They aren't really needed, I just like the additional source of removal...it's served me well against Mages, Lynxes, FTKs, and Snakes, so it's stayed in. For the record, I'd also use Karps over Springs, simply because there are times when you'll want the red mana at the same time as the black--using your black sources as opposed to your green as a means to generate red will occassionally lock you out of the ability to use Terminate. It may not happen often, but just the possibility is enough for me to want to stick with Karps :)
Interesting that you ran into so many Squirrel Nests though...I've never seen them played in SnakeTongue before. Definitely something to think about...
How did the Kavu Chameleons serve you in the sideboard compared to those cards you boarded out for them (and what *did* you board out for them)? How 'bout the Rages? Would the 2 Beast Attack, 2 Duress plan in the main have helped more than it hurt, or hurt more than it would have helped? Would sideboarded Pyroclasms have helped against the Nests and against the incarnations of SnakeTongue that you ran up against in general, or would they have hurt more by making you more exposed to burn with your larger creatures and knocking out your FTKs/mana critters?
PS: Ed, I'm very sorry. I was running short on time, and didn't have the chance to really pay attention to who was posting. I saw a "p" at the beginning, and just typed the first name that came to mind. My mistake :(
Chilling_Apparition
12-10-01, 10:35
vs. Snake Tongue, I always ditched the Terminates for Rages, since they helped much more. Also, Kavu Chameleon served better than the monger in that matchup. Slay came in vs. UG whenever possible, as it did (obviously) vs. any aggro deck with a green creature base.
Scott, none of the straight up Snake Tongues used it, just the one guy in T8 (who I believe won) used them.
Oh, and I think the team needs to change our whole idea of new decks. We shouldn't look at TDD as the benchmark anymore. It should UGr Oppo, and Snake Tongue, as they both handle TDD with ease. TDD shouldn't be the benchmark (though it is an amazing decl :D).
I'd expect that you could board out some Terminates or some of the lower level creatures for the Chameleons vs control and it wouldn't hurt too much.
And I'd definetly say that Snake toungue is one of the more popular decks out there, along with all of the opposition variants.
I feel sorta bad today, my girlfriend dumped me for my best friend. :(
terraformer51
12-10-01, 17:39
Originally posted by Chilling_Apparition
Oh, and I think the team needs to change our whole idea of new decks. We shouldn't look at TDD as the benchmark anymore. It should UGr Oppo, and Snake Tongue, as they both handle TDD with ease. TDD shouldn't be the benchmark (though it is an amazing decl :D).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we ever did :p.
Anyway, the SB is definitely the aspect of the deck that needs the most work.
I agree that Spellbane Centaur is not as powerful as it used to be, due to the fact that most opposition decks pack FTK and Fire/Ice to handle it. I don't think it should be dropped entirely, but maybe cut down to two...
Thunderscape Battlemage should be in the sideboard. I think it was anyway, but it provides more hate against Squirrel Nest/Opposition. FTK isn't *that* useful in that particular matchup, so this makes for an easy substitution. At least two should be there, and probably three.
I still say Kavu Chameleon isn't worth it. IMO, monger should *never* be boarded out. Beast Attack is usually as good or better since you still get 2-for-1 card advantage when they counter the first one (unless it's Syncopate, of course). Snaketongue can deal with Kavu Chameleon with FTK, but it can't deal with Spiritmonger except by AEther Burst or Repulse.
I think Duress, Terminate, FTK, and Pernicious Deed are the only cards that would ever be SB'd out. Everything else should usually stay in, unless I'm forgetting a particular archetype which mana critters, treefolk, COTH, and monger aren't amazing against ;).
Oh and Mike, sorry about that. Remember BLoD's timeless "Girls or Magic" poll? That's why you always go with Magic, for while you may flounder at times with it it will always be faithful :D.
Emma has been faithful for 2 years now, but at least my best friend is being nice about it. Oh well. :(
but it can't deal with Spiritmonger except by AEther Burst or Repulse.
how about some of those counterspells I've heard the deck runs?
Nick: Nice job, but I disagree with you when you said how you didn't think Spellbane Centaur was worth it. Well, of course it isn't if you only have 1! I side in 3-4 most games I play against U/G/r Opposition, and the Centaurs are usually very good. By the time they draw into FTK or Fire/Ice, I've usually won.
Also, I disagree with you when you say Kavu Chameleon isn't worth it. Around here, there are many control decks, and Kavu Chameleon fits perfectly into the metagame. It is the perfect card in control match-ups, and I'm always happy to see it. A lot of control decks have few answers to it, making it really good, while Spiritmonger is easier to deal with.
Also, Nick: Where is the feature match report on TOGIT? I can't find it.
Sorry to hear about that Mike :(
Chilling_Apparition
12-11-01, 09:53
That really sux man. Sorry to hear that.
Ed: Even in testing, where I packed 3, they were USELESS. I play second turn centaur, they play second turn fire. lol.
Andy: We never used it as a benchmark? Put down the crack and look at the tons of posts made by (you and scott mostly) saying if a deck can't beat TDD it's not worth working on. If you'll also look, me and several other members were saying that there's little that beats it, but not to worry since there's hardly any. (IE: 51 people and I'm the only guy with BGr)
Chameleon is definitely worth it. I board out mongers for him in every control matchup. Monger just gets Snaked/Counterspelled against Snake-Tongue/Opposition. If you keep away Opposition with one on the board, all they can do is repulse/AEther Burst for a stall.
They're putting up the results pretty soon, I'll let you guys know when they're up. Theyre gonna have every deck, 6 feature matches, T8 decks, final standings (I finished 6th), and hopefully my tournament report.
and I have a mana base question. right now, which base would be better?:
A (what I have now)
2 Karplusian Forest
2 Darigaaz's Caldera
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
7 Forest
B (what I like better)
2 Karplusian Forest
2 Darigaaz's Caldera
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Shadowblood Ridge
5 Swamp
7 Forest
terraformer51
12-11-01, 10:36
Andy: We never used it as a benchmark? Put down the crack
I have a sense of humor, but please don't address me like that again. I may have misinterpreted the context of your use of the word "benchmark"--I thought you were referring to it as the "benchmark" of the Type II metagame, and of course we don't do that. I do use it as a benchmark for our own decks, and perhaps unjustifiably so; if that's the context you meant it in, I will concede that I may be guilty in doing that and will try not to as much :(.
However, I never said TDD was the benchmark of the Type II environment; I am not that conceited or naive to think that we could come up with a deck that's better than the decks the pros have been working on en masse. That's a ridiculous claim to make and I hope none of us ever do it...
Chameleon is definitely worth it. I board out mongers for him in every control matchup. Monger just gets Snaked/Counterspelled against Snake-Tongue/Opposition. If you keep away Opposition with one on the board, all they can do is repulse/AEther Burst for a stall.
And all Snake-Tongue has to do to take care of Kavu Chameleon is FTK it. It can also be Raged/Fired in combination with any combat damage dealt to it. I understand your point that Chameleon has the advantage of being able to enter into the game easier, but if you have either one on the board the Monger is the one that's most difficult to deal with.
Granted, they can bounce Monger and then counter it, but with the Chameleon they don't need to bounce it to deal with it.
and I have a mana base question. right now, which base would be better?:
A (what I have now)
2 Karplusian Forest
2 Darigaaz's Caldera
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Sulfurous Springs
5 Swamp
7 Forest
B (what I like better)
2 Karplusian Forest
2 Darigaaz's Caldera
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Shadowblood Ridge
5 Swamp
7 Forest
B is better, but I wouldn't run 4 Ridges. If you cut two Ridges and added two Karplusan Forests I think that would be the optimal configuration. I run 8 forests and 4 swamps, but that's because I maindeck 2 Beast Attacks and only 2 Duress. If you MD 4 duress, it's fine the way you have it.
I personally don't like the Shadowblood Ridge type lands. but if they work, I'd suggest you use 2. That seems like the right number to me. Because you don't want to be stuck with those lands and calderas in your opening hand. Also, in pretty much any deck I would never go over 9 painlands, but mabye that's just me. Andy, why have you decided to maindeck beast attack? Just wondering.
Oh, and Emma apoligized, we are good friends now. :)
Chilling_Apparition
12-11-01, 16:59
Yeah I meant for our decks.
And Sorry I said that, It's just my sense of humor, I was using it in a joking tone, not an angry one, like an expression, but that's kinda hard to show when you're typing :( I didn't mean to offend you or anything.
I really don't like the lands like Shadowblood Ridge, either. Especially if you were planning on running 4 of them, Nick. The fact that they require another land to activate makes them kind of useless, seeing how they only are producing one mana like normal lands. I haven't found mana consistency as a problem for TDD ever, so I really see no need for those lands.
(EDIT: Just saw this idea in the type 2 decks forum that looks pretty cool. It's creator gave a decent explanation, too, so we know the deck doesn't completely suck. Anyways, tell me what you think:
"Reyanimator"
4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood
3 Addle
4 Buried Alive
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Infernal Contract
4 Life/Death
4 Zombify
2 Reya, Dawnbringer
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Mindslicer
1 Devouring Strossus
20 Swamp
By the way, the deck's creator was eiseg (I think that was his name).)
Chilling_Apparition
12-11-01, 19:18
looks like a cool deck. I've seen some variations with wild mongrel and Roar of the Wurm, and Entomb and Tolarian Winds, etc. They use huge guys like Crimson Hellkite, Vampiric Dragon, etc.
I think I'm just gonna use 2 ridges
I think it has potential, I had never thought of using Reya to combo well with a Reanimator deck. Reya with Mindslicer and/or Braids makes for a very cool and powerful combo :D
Chilling_Apparition
12-11-01, 20:52
I've played vs. Jason's version, and his entombs a first turn Monger/Reya/Hellkite/Vamp. Dragon and then Life/Death's it next turn. Weak part is that when the repulse your life loss creatures it's hell. And terminate/other removal is just bad. That's one major weakness. But other than that it's incredibly fast, plus it gets around Deed and FTK, and make Mystic Snake and Expensive counters useless.
Good old Iridescant Angel would work pretty damn well in that spot. A 2nd turn 4/4 untargetable unblockable is always nice. The game will be over in 5 turns.
Chilling_Apparition
12-12-01, 09:29
yet another great idea! But we should really limit the number of off color fatties, since if you don't get the combo(s) you can still have a solid curve of creatures.
And you know how there's so many squirrel nest problems for TDD? I think Shivan Wurm would be a nice solution. he eats tokens for breakfast and rolls over some hefty damage. Opinions?
terraformer51
12-12-01, 13:04
Originally posted by Chilling_Apparition
And you know how there's so many squirrel nest problems for TDD? I think Shivan Wurm would be a nice solution. he eats tokens for breakfast and rolls over some hefty damage. Opinions?
*shrugs* I think Pernicious Deed and SB Thunderscape Battlemage is enough hate for this particular card. We also have Duress to pick it out of their hand if we're lucky :p.
We already have 8 MD red spells--I don't really think adding more than that is such a good idea. The only place I can think of putting it would be to run 1-2 SB, and replace FTK with it, since it doesn't sound like FTK would be a very useful card in that matchup. Furthermore, since I would think the Battlemages would be SB'd in anyway for the FTKs, well..you get the idea. Also, it depends on whether you're running Beast Attack or not; if you are, it becomes that much more difficult to fit in Shivan Wurm w/o stretching the mana curve to the absolute limit.
One other thing...the deck in question runs Repulse and/or AEther Burst, correct? Bounce makes running Shivan Wurm very risky because it makes you vulnerable to a major tempo loss.
Chilling_Apparition
12-12-01, 16:00
good point andy, the tempo loss would seriously hurt...And yes, Deed and Duress picked Nest away more than once.
Oh and Mike, Happy Chanukah! 3 Days in and I almost forgot!
You too Nick! Unfortunately I don't get presents for Chanukah, oh well. :(
I played with UG tempo against Ed who was playing some mono blue deck. All he did all game was draw cards, play land, bounce my creatures, and try unsuccesfully to counter my creatures. I'm not sure how he was intending to win. :)
I agree with what Andy said about Shivan Wurm.
Chilling_Apparition
12-12-01, 21:57
I'm not jewish ;) I'm Roman Catholic.
But two of my close friends are jewish, so I figured I'd say happy chanukah.
No presents sux :(
OOPS! Forgot to put in my new tag!
Not one reply today, sheesh! Anyways, the deck I was playing was one I got from MTGPlanet. It was a mono-blue Draw-Go deck with 2 Motis for the kill. I was just trying out to see if it was worth anything, and despite the creator's insistance that it was great, I couldn't get it to do much against Mike :)
And everyone, I have a suggestion for our 8th member. I have seen some of his stuff around and he is a knowledgable and smart player. I think he would be a great addition to the team. His name is billking. I recommend you guys take a look at some of his posts.
Iridescent Angel would be nice for the deck. How about this:
4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood
3 Addle
4 Buried Alive
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Life/Death
4 Zombify
2 Reya, Dawnbringer
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Mindslicer
1 Devouring Strossus
2 Iridescant Angel
20 Swamp
Infernal Contract is good for the deck, but it is cast no more than once per game, so I dropped a couple of them. Thoughts everyone? Oh, and Nick, is "Jason" Card Shark?
(EDIT: Just realized the deck is 61 cards, so I removed the last 2 Contracts to make 60 cards and a Swamp.)
Alright, where is Konrad? We need a conclusion about Card Shark (Jon). Most of you seem unsure and I don't think Andy has taken an opinion.
Have we looked into any opposition variants? I'm not gonna give a decklist because I've never played the deck myself, but that seems to be the deck I lose most to, so I thought we might want to consider looking at it.
I Can't believe the Nickelback concert was sold out, they're my favorite band! ARGHH!
Konrad, like he said in his last post, is on vacation for awhile, I think he said 2 weeks or something like that.
I still haven't seen anything that separates Card Shark apart from some of the other members around MTGnews, so as of now my vote will stand as "no".
I brought a U/G/r Opposition deck a few days after states but I don't think anyone was interested enough to see if it was any good. It splashed red for FTK and Fire/Ice (I guess you could use Rage SB if you wanted, too).
...Nickelback... *shudder*
Alright, well I guess if we have a vote for no, then Card Shark doesn't get in, sorry Jon.
And Nickelback is my favorite band, "How you remind me", "Too bad", those songs are awesome!
Torment is approaching, time for reviews! Did you guys see that new Dark Ritual like card in the partial spoiler? I know it won't work in most decks, but I can think of a drain life like deck which it would be awesome in.
Card Shark
12-13-01, 21:38
Well, in a way I'm kind of honored that some of you guys wanted me on the team. However, I must respect the fact that you did vote "no" for me as you really DON'T know me that well. However, I do hope that you would like to get to know me for hope that we may partake in future "functions" together in the future. I must say though, that if our paths cross in the future, I'll show NO mercy to any of you...jk I'll befriend you like anyone else.
Well, that was a bit bittersweet...so I'll leave you in peace. I encourage you to talk to me on AIM at CardSharkthe IV or at AOL at GTown513
See you all later,
Card Shark
Chilling_Apparition
12-14-01, 10:31
Jason is the guy who won and T8ed at the pro tours I was talking about.
I think that a unamimous vote isn't necessary. We've got 7 members, so we should do a majority one.
we should test TDD, Tempo, and some other decks vs. Chris Donovan's U/R deck from New York States. He did great there with it.
Nickelback is pretty good. They're OK, but Heavy Metal is my kind of music.
Although I'd like to do that Nick, it is better to use unanimous voting for our purposes because there are so few spots so whoever joins should get along with everyone. Because the group is so small and strict, it makes the team more unified and better. So unless Ed changes his vote, Card Shark cannot unfortunately be on the team. Oh well.
I will probably be playing in the 1.x PTQ, this is my first major extended event, whoohoo! What deck do you guys think I should play? The ones I have the cards for are:
Stasis
Counter Oath
Sligh
Stompy
White Weenie (although I'm still missing a couple of cards)
I agree with Ed's verdict regarding Card Shark; while I haven't seen anything bad from him, I also haven't seen anything to set him apart just yet. However, I would agree to keep him in mind as a possibility for the future and not rule him out entirely. I'm also with Mike on the exclusion of any who do not receive unanimous votes; we really need to be unified as a team and be comfortable with each of our members and their contributions, which we just cannot do if there's even one of us which does not fully respect the opinions of another member.
Mike: Of those decks, I'd play a Stasis variant, if you have the patience for it. It's just the most likely to perform well in the developing metagame. There's an article (it may be in the archives by now) on Brainburst by Seth Burn which discusses Stasis at least in part which I'd definitely take a look at; just be sure to take The Rock into account in addition to the other metagame considerations previously known.
Nickelback is good, but some are better than others. Personally I'm more a fan of Breathe, Old Enough, and a few others, over How You Remind Me and Leader of Men, but they aren't bad. My tastes are pretty diverse, really--everything from Bach to ohGr, with some of my current favorites being Puddle of Mudd, A Perfect Circle, Matchbox 20, Metallica (never leaves the list ;)), The Verve Pipe, and Staind, for example--so it's usually pretty hard to find something I don't like ;) Unless, of course, it's Country... ::shudders violently::
As for decks, I believe that the following are all decks that we need to test with/against, just have to find the time and actually do it:
-TDD
-Upfestation (UB and UBr)
-Rice Snack (a few variants, and Konrad's Upfestation variant as well, possibly)
-SnakeTongue
-Rocket Shoes/Fat Crank (still the hallmark)
-UBr Creatureless (only possible critters being Finkle, Familiar, and Pyre Zombie)
-BRu near-creatureless Machine Head
-BRg Machine Head
-BRu Burning Bridges (an odd idea that I toyed with that actually seems like it might work)
-UG Tempo
-UGr Opposition
-Draino
I'm sure there are a lot I'm missing, but that's what comes to mind offhand. I'm coming up on break in just a few days, which may mean either more or less time to work on testing/deck construction, I'm not certain :) I'll keep you all informed though.
Should we stay focused on T2, or should we do some work on Extended, given the season?
*sniff* No one wished me a Happy Chanukah as well... :(
;)
terraformer51
12-14-01, 16:11
Originally posted by Skizzik
I will probably be playing in the 1.x PTQ, this is my first major extended event, whoohoo! What deck do you guys think I should play? The ones I have the cards for are:
Stasis
Counter Oath
Sligh
Stompy
White Weenie (although I'm still missing a couple of cards)
Personally, I don't think stompy is viable in Extended right now. It loses horribly to Junk and Benzo, and probably wouldn't do well against Trix either. Of course this is all irrelevant if you don't expect to see those decks, but you know what I mean ;). The same logic applies more or less to Sligh as well.
WW can be viable, but not monowhite. Splashing blue for Meddling Mage is a very good idea, and possibly black too (i.e. W/u/b) for SB Perish is a possibility, as Junk will eat WW alive (trust me, the match win I actually accomplished in the last Extended PTQ was when I beat WW with Junk ;)). I've also seen some that splash green for Armadillo Cloak, which is great against Trix (until they bring in Morphling, anyway :() and Sligh.
I think from that list of decks, Stasis or Counter Oath (especially Maher Oath-style for Overgrown Estate, Wild Research, etc.) is probably your best bet. Maher Oath is a VERY difficult deck to play, though, so don't look into it unless you're very confident you can pick it up in a short period of time.
I don't have much time to talk (I feel like Scott!)
I'm going to have to agree with Mike on this one. Whoever we decide the replacement to be, it should be unanimous.
Mike: I've always been partial to Stasis, but you should probably go with WW if you have no experience with either of them, Stasis is a surprisingly difficult deck to play.
Well, as I said, I don't have all of the cards for white weenie. So based on what you all said, I'll probably choose either Counter Oath or Stasis. Probably Counter Oath because it is so darn fun to play! I assume you guys think I should go with the UGw version for tutor? Like this:
1 Morphling
1 Spike Weaver
1 Spike Feeder
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Gaea's Blessing
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Oath of Druids
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Brainstorm
4 Enlightened Tutor
1 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Treetop Village
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Adakar Wastes
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Savannah
4 Island
Scott, we might want to test with Draino, but certainly not against it. I don't think it will be all that popular. The others look pretty much along the line I was thinking. But I noticed you didn't include any mono colored decks in your list, is there a reason?
Chilling_Apparition
12-14-01, 16:47
Scott: Sorry! Didn't know!
Happy Chanukah!
I'd play counter oatrh or stasis, since they're both great.
Mike: If you play CounterOath, beware. You'll be facing hate at every turn tuned to take out your Blessings and recursive critters, or just your key spells so they can't be recursed again. There'll be a lot of decks taking you into account, but if you know how to play it well, you should be able to dodge most of the bullets (kinda like well-played TurboLand seems to do, only not as well ;)). There are actually a few combinations you could play on colors though--white gives you the Tutors, black the Deeds and Estate, red the Wild Research and (effectively) AK, along with boarded Pyroblast. Take your pick :) I have a feeling that Stasis is a bit more solid overall in the metagame, but if you like Oath more/are more comfortable with it, that's your decision :) If you have time to playtest, it may be worth it to learn how to play TurboLand as well--it's a lot of fun to play (reputedly, I don't play enough Extended to know :)), and just seems better than Oath right about now overall. I could be wrong quite easily though :)
As for Draino, I agree that we shouldn't bother testing against it much...but it's been posting good results just often enough that it may be something worth looking into. Not all of those were decks we should test against, some of them were ones we needed to test with :) As for mono colored decks...are there any that you would consider viable enough to be deserving of listing? I don't consider Sligh viable after the testing we did, especially not the Mono-Red version; WW is better splashing other colors; MonoB doesn't have enough support yet (though I'll be trying to make it work as soon as it does, mark my words... :)). Mono-Green and Mono-Blue are the closest, but I think that both are much stronger with the inclusion of other colors as well. Am I missing something on the mono-colored front? :)
Note to everyone: SSS should definitely be on that list as well, not sure how I forgot about it.
Nick: Yes, I'm Jewish as well :)
:) Happy Chanukah to all our Jewish members! :)
No one has said anything after I reported that billking would probably make a good member. You all should check out some of his posts, he posts around some of the strategy forums, and I have seen some very productive posts from him.
And we're already finding out stuff about Torment?! I hate WotC, why do they keep having to release new sets so damn quickly?
terraformer51
12-14-01, 19:23
Mike, that looks pretty good but I don't know if you'd want 4 tutors; after all, you're not so much running the "silver bullet" approach that Maher Oath runs.
Also, I would much rather see 4 impulse in there over 4 FoF. impulse and brainstorm in the same deck is just ridiculous :D. Depending on how many tutors you end up running, you might still have room for FoF though...
About Draino...that deck initially caught my eye as well, but it looks too inconsistent for my tastes *shrugs*. If it doesn't achieve threshold, it's creature base is a little shaky, and even if it DOES it doesn't have as many "high impact" cards as I'd like.
UBR would definitely be worth looking into though. I really like the counterburn deck that won NY States, but it could easily benefit from splashing black or white (to pick up undermine or absorb) for starters, and we could figure out what else to run. Either way, I'd be inclined to go with blue and red as the main colors and black or white as the splash color....
Ah! Thanks for catching that Andy. I had actually intended it to be Impulse, I don't know why I typed Fact or Fiction. Silly me!
If I decide I want to have time between rounds, do you guys think Sligh or Stompy would more competative?
terraformer51
12-14-01, 20:40
Originally posted by Skizzik
If I decide I want to have time between rounds, do you guys think Sligh or Stompy would more competative?
I think Sligh is probably the better choice, since Perish absolutely wrecks stompy and most decks running black will likely run Perish. Since Benzo sees a lot of play, you can probably expect to see black ;).
Also, with Sligh you have SB Pyroblast, which I hear can be a good thing against Trix if you can actually get it to resolve.....;).
Finally, Sligh is less vulnerable to Pernicious Deed (I think so anyway :p), which as I said before sees play in Junk and The Rock, which will both be decks you'll have to be prepared for.
That's true, so we've narrowed it down to:
Sligh- If I want time between rounds
Stasis- If I want to do the best
Counter Oath- If I want to have fun
Thanks guys. :)
What do you guys think of this Extended combo deck?
4 AK
4 Kindle
4 Flame Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Wild Researcha
4 Holistic Wisdom
4 Counterspell
4 Forbid
4 Force of Will
24 land
Counter or burn early creatures, then Reaearch for 4 copies of the AK, then for the Wisdom, then start drawing 8 cards a turn for 6 mana. Then kill your opponent in one turn, with almost infinite counter backup.
Does anyone know what the Extended deck "samurai jack" is?
Chilling_Apparition
12-15-01, 16:13
Well, I went to FNM last night . 3-1 with TDD. My only loss came to a UBg deck when I was land screwed at 2 lands, wile he was holind 5 counters, FoFed into 4 lands and a FoF, then 4 lands and a Counterspell :( Second game I had a decent advantage, but he manages to stabilize with deed and turns the game around. But, I beat UWr, RG, and UW. I loved beating the UW guy, he was like 30 and was laughing how "HAHA! I got a little kid! Random bye for me!" So I was happy when I handed him his ass 2-0 :D
terraformer51
12-15-01, 16:52
Originally posted by Lich
What do you guys think of this Extended combo deck?
4 AK
4 Kindle
4 Flame Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Wild Researcha
4 Holistic Wisdom
4 Counterspell
4 Forbid
4 Force of Will
24 land
Counter or burn early creatures, then Reaearch for 4 copies of the AK, then for the Wisdom, then start drawing 8 cards a turn for 6 mana. Then kill your opponent in one turn, with almost infinite counter backup.
Does anyone know what the Extended deck "samurai jack" is?
I don't know what samurai jack is, unfortunately. Sorry :(.
As for the deck you posted...Intuition also works quite well with AK, Flame Burst and Kindle. I'd almost be tempted to run that instead of Wild Research since you can use it multiple times with Holistic Wisdom if necessary :). Either that, or just cut a few Researches..I definitely don't think you need 4. 4 FoFs is probably too many as well. I'd be more tempted to run Merchant Scroll in it's place.
You could also benefit from some non-creature board control. Capsize is the first card that comes to mind in this case.
It looks interesting, but I don't know how viable it would be. It comprises a lot of the elements of Trix except it's not as explosive as said deck, unless I'm missing something :p.
Also, the fact remains that Holistic Wisdom requires 1GG, and green is the "tertiary" color in the deck.
EDIT: Nice job being the UW deck Nick :D!!
Ya, never think you have a bye because you are playing a kid. Some of the kids in my area are getting pretty competative. Good job Nick, I'm always happy with only one loss. :)
That's a very interesting idea Gabriel. I haven't taken the brainpower/time to figure out all of the stuff you said about it, but that would be really cool if it worked. I might even construct it. I love red blue decks, counterburn is a fun deck. I've never heard of a deck called Samurai Jack, but the cartoon is pretty cool! :D
Arghh, why can't I stop thinking about Emma!...
Chilling_Apparition
12-15-01, 18:29
yeah, btu where does he get "kid" from? I'm 15, not to mention I've got a ****in beard...It's not like I look little.
Okay, so I am completely invisible. Thanks for clearing that one up guys...
Chilling_Apparition
12-16-01, 11:51
Who the hell are you?
Since when are you on the team? I thought we said 6 was enough....now 7?
j/k
what was your question/statement/deck? I missed it, and it don't come up on the thread view...
About Billking: I don't know who the hell he is :confused:
Maybe if I saw some of his posts....
Yawgmoth's Father
12-16-01, 12:53
Alright guys, I'M BACK!
About the new members- I haven't had time to check out those particular two (Billking and Cardshark) but I happen to think that getting another member now will just result in pointless conversation.
The deck I was referring to when I said I was working on Evil Plans is a Silver Bullet style G/W deck. It worked very well for a while, but then it started to lose against Snake-Tongue with Fire/Ice. If you guys are still interested in it, I can post a decklist.
I'll get up to speed in the next couple of days but right now I'm very tired from a 9-hour car journey. :)
BTW, I can see Proscrypt perfectly well. :D
Chilling_Apparition
12-16-01, 14:27
Well, I've also seen nothing of billking, but I'll check out his posts...he seems like a great guy from what you've seen ed.
Oh, I'm back now. What a relief!
Just search his member name and see some of his posts, I think he mainly posts around the strategy forums.
But Konrad could be right, no member may be for the best.
terraformer51
12-16-01, 14:57
I have seen the work of Card Shark and Billking. I think they are both very competent and would be excellent members in any DBG they were to join.
Nevertheless, I also agree that taking on another member is not the best idea, because a) I think we have enough members as is and b) we don't want to hog all of the good players/strategists to ourselves, do we :D? We could stand to have a couple more DBGs in the forums; they should be encouraged to start one up themselves if we're not gonna take them. There are tons of people waiting to be picked up in the "Members looking for a group" post, anyway. If we take on the other good players/strategists, it will be hard for other DBGs to function well and they will get discouraged as a result.
There, I said it :p. That's my take on the matter.
Oh, and btw anyone who wants to help the Type II reps for this site in the interforums tourney (I'm one of them :)) get their decks straightened out, feel free to voice your opinions on the approriate thread I made in this forum. You probably won't have too much to say about mine though ;).
Alright, we don't have to get a new member, whatever floats your boat. :D
There are so many tournaments going on in MTGnews, I'm so confused, could someone explain them all to me? Thanks.
Welcome back Konrad. :)
Intuition would be very interesting in that deck. I think I'm gonna build it just to have fun and see how well it does. I'm gonna test it vs the 1.x decks I have and I'll let you guys know how it goes.
It looks like Card Shark joined the Roguedeckers (though I fail to see how on earth he is a "rogue" player, all I've seen him play are netdecks). But it will probably be for the best if we have no new member.
I got my Holistic Wisdom deck stolen last night :( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: so I need to build a new one. I won an amazing draft last night with 2 Infiltrator and a Patron Wizard, so I want to use them, and I came up with what could be a great deck built around them.
4 Patron Wizard
4 Infiltrator
4 Daring Apprentice
4 Temporal Adept
4 Hate Weaver
4 Repulse
4 Wash Out
4 Earth Rift
4 Stone Rain
4 Implode
2 FoF
22 land
It's a complete lock!
About Jon: I don't think that he fits in Roguedeckers either, but if he wants to be, then I wish him good luck!
That sucks Gabriel, I've never had a deck stolen, but once I had a Pernicious Deed stolen from me. Too bad there are people like that out there. :(
That's certainly an.......interesting......deck. You'd have to play it in front of me to prove it's viability though. And just one question, do you have some thing for not showing us the land configuration or are you just lazy? :D jk
Sorry to hear about the deck, Gabriel :(
The deck looks interesting. As Mike said, I would need to visibly see it to understand it.
Also, if anyone is interested in seeing created cards, I made a website about mine. I just finished my 354-card standalone set (Incursion) and am working on the first expansion (Rebirth). So if you're interested, check this highly-intense, graphical site out (:D):
http://www.geocities.com/halo620
(Also, if any of you were wondering, my HTML skills are just a little better than that ;) )
Does anyone here know XML? I'm currently learning it.
I learnt some XML last year but it had no practical applications so I stopped. I do however know quite a lot about C++, Javascript, HTML, Pascal, and Java. Especially C++, I'm currently studying for the AB Computer Science exam (got a 5 on the A exam, oh ya! :))
I'll go look at the site, I hope you used that flavor text I gave you! :D
EDIT: You did! Cool. I really like the set, the cards seem to fit in just the right way. :)
I'll look at the site when I have time.
I'm relatively good with HTML, but I know absolutely nothing about any of the others. I hope to learn about C++ soon though.
About the deck: If you don't know the strategy, I will counter, bounce or block early threats. Then, when I have out a sufficient number of wizards and a Patron Wizard, I'll start destroying land and countering threats. Then, I use Temporal Adept (also a wizard) to bounce everything they play that I don't counter, and counter everything else. Then attack with an Infiltrator and random other creatures every turn for the win. I'm kinda worried about Blurred Mongoose, but I guess I can just block him.
And yes, I am lazy! :D
Chilling_Apparition
12-17-01, 09:36
I know HTML and I like graphic design a lot..as in GIFs and Shockwave Movies. Hopefully I'll get SHockwave Director soon and make the Team site a really cool Flash Site :D
That sux. Thieves are bad :(
I think it was Carlos Chancon who wrote an article on a UW Patron Wizard deck, it's on MTGlair.com.
where can I read up on XML?
Gabriel: Chris Donovan's UR deck from States was amazing but Blurred Mongoose meant game. Emblazoned Golem, however, exchanges with him. PLUS, if you run Ancient Spring (Yes, I'm Serious) he turns into a 5/6 menace! Drop 4 Hate Weaver for 4 of these, and put in 4 Springs. Believe it or not, it works!
Yawgmoth's Father
12-17-01, 12:03
Emblazoned Golem is an often-overlooked card, but I'm sure Gabriel will say "no" to it since it's not a wizard.
Does anyone know where I can get an Apprentice update for Windows XP? (once I get it, I might be able to start playtesting Zombie Infestation/Upheaval/Domain).
Don't know for Windows XP. I would have thought you could just get the normal update, why not?
Nick, I learned what I did about XML from the Microsoft site. Just search for XML. But it's really boring, tedious, and doesn't do all that much more than javascript or java or any of those.
Gabriel, I don't like the deck. Especially now that you have told me the strategy. I think it's too unfocused, both with color choices and the goals of the deck in each game. You should try to focus it more.
PS: I'm happy again, got another girlfriend, no more depression for me! :D
-12 LD spells
-red
+4 Counterspell
+4 Undermine
+4 Syncopate
Better? I actually realize that I don't need the LD for the lock.
Chilling_Apparition
12-17-01, 16:44
Gabriel, I'd try this:
4 Patron Wizard
4 Daring Apprentice
4 Temporal Adept
4 Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 Repulse
4 Recoil
4 Counterspell
4 Undermine
4 Syncopate
2 FoF
22 Land
Much better, the land destruction is what was pulling the deck behind. Nick's version is quite good, although you might want to use 23 land, to fuel the temporal adepts.
XML is simply expanding on HTML, which is extremely limited. Plus, XML is a lot easier to understand than the complexity of SGML.
If anyone wants to submit some cards for my next set, feel free to, by pming me or emailing me (aenima@att.net). Thanks.
The Patron deck looks interesting, and the idea with Ancient Spring looks fun, but we'll have to see how it works out.
terraformer51
12-17-01, 23:40
Call me a sucker, but I like burn decks. Especially those that revolve around card advantage :).
I've been playtesting with ElGato a lot recently...he plays it, and in the process of helping him I've come to like it too. I feel that it's a very solid, yet severely underrated archetype. Why? The main advantage it has is that a lot of the best cards in Type II don't really affect it that much (assuming a creatureless or near-creatureless build, which seems to be the optimal configuration right now):
FTK
Pernicious Deed
Terminate
Vindicate
come to mind right away.
Obviously, the main problem it has is creatures with toughness >4, since this is outside the range of Prophetic Bolt and FTK if you decide to run it (most I've seen run it SB). You either have to counter it or bounce it for long enough to delay it. However, I think I *may* have found one solution to this:
Pit Trap
2, Artifact, 7th Edition Uncommon
2, T, Sacrifice Pit Trap: Destroy target attacking creature without flying. It can’t be regenerated.
Quite conveniently, this handles Spiritmonger rather well :D, as well as other regenerators and pro-red attackers. I think it has potential as a SB card.
I've also been testing this deck with Mirari. Yes, I know it's a scrubby card :D. But as has been pointed out in an article I read on this archetype, Counterburn is perhaps THE deck to use it in. It allows for a lot of sick FoFs, prophetic bolts, and double duty out of rages, fire/ices etc. I haven't done enough testing to determine whether it's worth its inclusion or not--i.e. whether it allows you to win more or win BY more--but I can tell you that in the games ElGato got it out against me and I wasn't able to Deed it away, the game went downhill fast :(.
Anyway, I intend to work on this deck whether the rest of you guys want to or not :p, but I'd love to work on it with the team, 'specially since we don't really have any other open threads at the moment. If we do decide to have a go at it, I'll post my current decklist there. It's similar to the one that won NY states, except I'm trying it out with a couple more counters, and with mirari.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-18-01, 03:06
Chris Donovan's deck was very good at the time, but Blurred Mongoose spells GAME OVER in big fat letters. Maybe Pyroclasm?
I actually looked at the deck a bit but I prefer creatureless U/B/R. Anyway, Chris Donovan's deck pretty much looks like it's perfect. Still, I'd be willing to offer suggestions.
terraformer51
12-18-01, 10:46
Originally posted by Yawgmoth's Father
Chris Donovan's deck was very good at the time, but Blurred Mongoose spells GAME OVER in big fat letters. Maybe Pyroclasm?
I actually looked at the deck a bit but I prefer creatureless U/B/R. Anyway, Chris Donovan's deck pretty much looks like it's perfect. Still, I'd be willing to offer suggestions.
Yes, there's pyroclasm :), which I think is good enough against enough decks anyway that it could easily make the SB. Glacial Wall is also a possibility. Nevertheless, I don't think deciding the deck's viability based on whether it can handle Blurred Mongoose is a good idea :D.
Chilling_Apparition
12-18-01, 15:03
I was gonna say this at 10:15, but there was a power outage at the school. Apparently a squirrel was caught in the transformer :D Poor Squirrel :D
Donovan's deck was great, but I think the egotistic @$$hole Mike Stein's deck is better. He came up with a great idea ; drop 4 Islands for 4 Ancient Spring and fit in 4 Emblazoned Golem. The golem exchanges 1 for 1 with the mongoose if they have them, and vs. decks that don't, you simply play him with a sacced kicker from the Springs and he's a 5/6 finisher. And if there's no springs, you can simply make him a 3/4 to dodge Rages.
The Springs also get a kickered Rage faster.
His deck is on togit.com in the "$250 FNM T8 Decklists" and it's also in his tournament report.
You counter the big guys, duh.
If you guys do decided to work on CB, I would be more than wiling to collaborate. As you probably know, this is the archtype that I play almost soley right now in type2, and I am becoming quite good at it. Right now I have a decklist for Regular CB, a more Aggro/Creature vs. Creature version (which I prefer), and I am working on a coupled decklists that have had Black or White splashed in.
Alright, Andy I think you should go ahead and make a new thread for the deck. I'm also interested on working on that.
I also really like that creatureless UBR deck Konrad posted, which I think is just as viable, if not more, as Counter burn.
I really like the FTKs in the sideboard, because opposing decks will be siding out their creature hate after the first game (including any FTKs they may have been running in their deck).
Pit Trap sounds interesting. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is a mainphase spell, but if the deck can handle that, then it could certainly work.
ElGato has expressed an interest in joining our team, what do you guys think? We could have him comment on the counter burn thread and decide based on that, a test of some sort I guess. And I'm sure we could use help from him on the deck if he's been playing with it for a while. :)
And I'm still extremely happy! :D
terraformer51
12-18-01, 16:45
OK, I'll do it.
Yes, Dan has already talked to me about possibly joining too. IF we decided that we want/need another member, I'd love to have him on the team.
Oh, and Mike...we're all happy for you, just don't turn this into a "Colleen-sort-of deal" if you know what I mean ;):D.
I take it Dan is ElGato...
Anyways, I'm looking for a way to abuse Holistic Wisdom in type 2 still. Lich's deck (well, his stolen deck) sounds interesting, what was the decklist?
But my favorite idea is probably the one that is U/W/G and uses a Draw-Go method backed up with Beast Attack/Call of the Herd for the kill. Here's a possible decklist, though I'm not sure what cards I'm missing since I've never dealt with Holistic Wisdom before:
3 Holistic Wisdom
4 Call of the Herd
4 Beast Attack
4 Counterspell
4 Syncopate
4 Absorb
4 Repulse
4 Aether Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
25 Land
LOL, almost every non-land card is an instant. I didn't mean to do that, but I guess that's nice with the Wisdom.
Or possibly a more aggro-type deck that uses Holistic Wisdom to create more tokens from Call of the Herd and Beast Attack? What do you think?
Andy, I don't quite know the story of Colleen, whoever that is, could you inform me?
Ed, I actually quite like the idea of that deck. However, the mana curve is horrible. You have no 1cc spells, and only 4 2cc spells (counterspell), and then a ton of 3cc spells. Other than that it's really nifty. :)
Good point... Opt, maybe?
Colleen was Bizkit's long-time (well, it seemed to be, at least) girlfriend who he kept going on and on about, and used as a way to spam up to his custom tag by posting irrelevant things but using Colleen as the target to make it alright. Don't get like that :)
BTW, I'd like to tell everyone that I didn't create the deck, I merely modified the Roguedeckers version!
I like my (I'll call it mine now, even though it is still the Roguedeckers) deck more, because it runs no creatures. Here is the version I am currently running:
3 FoF
4 Flame Burst
4 Rage
4 Wisdom
2 Wild Research
1 Prophetic Bolt (might be upping to 2)
2 Evacuation
4 Counterspell
3 Syncopate
2 Suffocating Blast (these are broken! I'm serious! I can discard them if I don't need them)
2 Tangle
2 Exclude
2 Fire/Ice
1 Cephalid Colosseum (I don't have any idea why the Rogues weren't running this!)
1 Barbarian Ring
3 Yavimaya Coast
4 Shivan Oasis
3 Shivan Reef
9 Island
3 Mountain
3 Forest
Sideboard:
2 Fire/Ice
2 Evacuation
2 Exclude
2 Tangle
4 Gainsay
2 Suffocating Blast
1 Syncopate
I am considering adding white for Life Burst. Yes, gaining 16/32 life a turn is always nice! I might even then turn it Domain and run black for Necrologia, and make it sort of a combo deck.
Don't worry Ed, that won't happen to me. I just feel I can talk about it to you guys because I know you all so well. But there will always be content in each of my posts. :)
Opt is certainly one of the cards I was thinking about for that deck.
That's a very interesting deck Lich, not the type of deck I like though. It seems too spread out.
Chilling_Apparition
12-19-01, 10:00
Mike, I'm happy for you, just don't get like bizkit....PLEASE
I'd add white to the Wisdom build, Life Burst would be sick!
Dan's fine with me. In fact, he was one of the people I originally suggested to be new members just after Justin resigned.
Life Burst would be pretty cool :)
How about this for Draw-Go:
3 Holistic Wisdom
3 Call of the Herd
4 Beast Attack
4 Counterspell
2 Syncopate
4 Absorb
3 Repulse
4 Aether Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Opt
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Plains
5 Forest
9 Island
Mana curve is better now with Opt, and I just quickly came up with the land mix. It seems fairly balanced, with plenty of blue and green sources and a little bit for white... come to think of it, the only thing white is in there for is Absorb. That doesn't seem worth it. Either we drop the Absorbs, or we could run Life Bursts. Then again, Absorb is in there so I can stay alive and gain life. Life Burst would seem like a better choice, and then we could run Absorb. Thoughts?
Chilling_Apparition
12-19-01, 15:49
HAHA! Today the seniors decided to pull their prank. They let over 30 mice loose in the school. mice everywhere. I amost steped on 2 of em'. Still like 20 in there, they onyl caught a few..
I'd drop 4 opt for 4 Sleight of Hand. I think they'd be superior in this deck. Especially when you recycle them with the wisdoms. OR, you could drop 4 opts for 1 more COTH, 2 more Syncopate, and 1 more Repulse. I'd be in favor of dropping the 4 opts for the other cards.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-20-01, 03:32
Dan has my vote.
Gabriel- I think you'll find that the Roguedeckers WERE running Cephalid Colosseum to deck people. :)
Ed- That's a pretty interesting idea. It's almost like a Walamies-style Elephant control deck, but for T2. I dunno how well Holistic Wisdom would fit in the deck, but it looks pretty good. Gabriel used to have a B/U/G deck with Elephants and he was doing pretty well with it. Maybe a U/G/x control deck is worth looking into. (Not Tempo! :))
Chilling_Apparition
12-20-01, 09:31
I played Dan's counterburn with TDD and beat it 3-1, but he had mana screw in every game I won, and the one I lost I had terrible draws, so the results were innacurate. I'll try playing him again today or sometime over the weekend, since I really wanna see how CB does vs. TDD.
Also, I played Andy's counterburn. I was up at 17 life while he was at 2 :D and through a series of rages, bolts, firebolts, fire/ice and Suff Blasts (great in there) he manage to come back and win after 37 turns :mad: it was a great game though :)
OK, I just came up with a much better decklist for the Wisdom deck that cuts all the crap.
4 Opt
3 Sleight of Hand
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Syncopate
4 Wrath of God
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Harrow
4 Life Burst
4 Counterspell
4 Absorb
3 Holistic Wisdom
1 Urza's Rage
20 land, a couple basics, but mostly pains.
I think that this is the version that should be worked on.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-20-01, 14:54
I don't think I can comment on that without playing the deck first.
Very rogue to say the least.
Originally posted by Chilling_Apparition
I'd drop 4 opt for 4 Sleight of Hand.
That wouldn't be ideal, considering the Sleights would be the only sorceries in the deck. They wouldn't work well with Wisdom then.
Interesting list, Gabriel, but I managed to get a game in with my version last night. It played very well, and Beast Attack/Call of the Herd were amazing. My opponent could never split my FoFs, and it was always to my advantage due to their flashback costs. I never got out the Wisdom, and still played well, so I am thinking that it may not even be necessary to have Holistic Wisdom in the deck at all. Therefore, I was thinking about something like this:
3 Call of the Herd
4 Beast Attack
4 Counterspell
2 Syncopate
4 Absorb
3 Repulse
4 Aether Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Opt
4 Life Burst
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Yavimaya Coast
3 Plains
5 Forest
8 Island
I think the deck is still effective now, as Holistic Wisdom wasn't necessary at all. So what do you all think to this?
Yawgmoth's Father
12-20-01, 16:24
I don't agree with the use of Life Burst unless there are Evil Plans™ involved. I'd go up to 4 Syncopates and cut the Absorbs (and consequently the White) for Mystic Snakes. Then again, that means the deck plays more like U/G Tempo:(
Chilling_Apparition
12-20-01, 17:03
Hey guys, I'm looking into a post-torment deck, and I've found a really cool idea. Use entomb + life/death for second turn hypnox, monger, vamp dragon, etc. The deck would be UB, using repulse and recoil for clearance, and zombie infestation and entomv for more graveyard filling. It would look like:
4 Entomb
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Life/Death
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Zombify
2 Recoil
4 Repulse
1 Hypnox
1 Irridescent Angel
1 Vampiric Dragon
1 Spiritmonger
1 Dromar, The Banisher
1 Sengir Vampire
1 Crosis, The Purger (Now his ability kicks some ass!)
1 Mahamotti Djinn
4 Darkwater Catacombs
4 Salt Marsh
14 Swamp
Hypnox is sickening in there....
Nick, what does Hypnox do?
Konrad, why wouldn't you use Life Burst to gain 16 life a turn for 4 mana? It really works well, I've seen it happen.
Hypnox 8BBB Rare
Creature — Nightmare Horror
8/8
Flying.
When Hypnox comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all cards in target opponent’s hand from the game. When Hypnox leaves play, return the removed cards to their owner’s hand.
That card is sickening with graveyard manipulation.
Ed, I liked the deck better when it was just green and blue.
Creating a post-Torment deck now is stupid. It's always dumb doing things like that when you don't even know all the cards in the set. I mean, there might be a card that totally wrecks the deck, or another that just breaks it.
Anyways, cutting white might be an idea. How about this version:
3 Call of the Herd
4 Beast Attack
4 Mystic Snake
4 Counterspell
4 Syncopate
4 Repulse
4 Aether Burst
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Opt
4 Yavimaya Coast
8 Forest
13 Island
That way it's a nice control deck, but it's also not U/G Tempo. Upping to 4 Calls is also an option, though something I'm not sure about yet. What do you all think?
Ed, I think the deck probably only needs 24 lands. You already have 4 Opts, and Repulse is a cantrip, so I think you would be fine with 24. You could add the 4th Call of the Herd for the taken out land.
That's what I was debating, I guess I'll do that then.
Anything else anyone can think of for the deck?
Yawgmoth's Father
12-21-01, 05:19
Originally posted by Lich
Nick, what does Hypnox do?
Konrad, why wouldn't you use Life Burst to gain 16 life a turn for 4 mana? It really works well, I've seen it happen.
Notice that he took Holistic Wisdom out of the deck.
BTW, I dunno why people are raving about Hypnox for Reanimator. 8/8 Flying for 11 life? Not very good IMO. Note that it DOES NOT remove your opponent's hand from the game.
terraformer51
12-21-01, 08:46
Konrad is right about Hypnox. I initially thought it would work that way in Reanimator too, but I missed this small but important phrase in it :p:
Hypnox 8BBB Rare
Creature — Nightmare Horror
8/8
Flying.
When Hypnox comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all cards in target opponent’s hand from the game. When Hypnox leaves play, return the removed cards to their owner’s hand.
Chilling_Apparition
12-21-01, 09:33
OH! DAMN! Well, I decided to make it mono black, here's a list:
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Buried Alive
4 Entomb
4 Life/Death
4 Zombify
4 Zombie Infestation
4 Nantuko Shade
2 Cabal Patriach
2 Sengir Vampire
1 Crosis, The Purger
1 Spiritmonger
1 Amugaba
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Thorn Elemental
1 Laquatus's Champion
4 Cabal Pit
18 Swamp
but that's just a rough draft, like ed said, I'm gonna wait for the spoiler to make up a formal version.
But now I really have doubts about the deck ; when I lose a ton of life to a Thorn Elemental just to have it terminated, it really sucks.
Ya, that's a good point.
Alright, so I guess this is the official vote for Dan (ElGato). As far as I can tell we have yes votes from me, Konrad, Andy, and Nick. So that leaves Gabriel, Ed, and Scott.
Nick, unfortunately I don't think that reanimation has much of a chance, but you are welcome to pursue it if you think it has potential.
Didn't realize the thing with Hypnox.
:D
So we are getting a new member now? I didn't know we'd agreed on that, but whatever works.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-22-01, 01:48
No, we haven't agreed on that. If you feel we do not need a new member at this time, then vote NO for Dan. It's sort of a double vote. If you say YES to Dan, of course you are also saying YES to a new member.
So you don't want a new member?
Chilling_Apparition
12-22-01, 10:27
Originally posted by Skizzik
Nick, unfortunately I don't think that reanimation has much of a chance, but you are welcome to pursue it if you think it has potential.
Yeah, I know. But I've always liked the deck, and wanna make it as a fun deck, then give it a shot at tournament viability. I't like 70% likely not to work in tourneys, so once I get the torment spoiler, I'll work on t for a while and just give up if it looks like crap vs. tier 1 decks.
terraformer51
12-22-01, 17:58
Does anyone here frequent Brainburst.com?
I found this deck, and it looks very interesting. I don't intend to play it :p but it might be something we need to playtest against:
"Lions and Tigers and Bears!"
4 Gaea`s Skyfolk
4 Yavimaya Barbarian
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Blurred Mongoose
4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Fire/Ice
4 Ceta Sanctuary
4 Call of the Herd
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Shivan Reef
4 Karplusan Forest
6 Forest
3 Island
3 Mountain
4 Extract
4 Meteor Storm
2 Shivan Wurm
2 Elvish Lyrist
3 Jungle Barrier
Here's the link if you want to read the article:
http://www.brainburst.com//strategy/type2/odyssey/011221.asp
I personally don't like it. It doesn't seem to have enough card advantage or manpower to beat aggro, and it doesn't seem to be fast enough or good enough late game to beat control. In addition, it's spread into three colors, with 12 painlands! Although it does look like it would be fun to play. :)
I check brainburst about once a week.
Ed, exactly what Konrad said.
So we still need those three remaining votes.
Chilling_Apparition
12-22-01, 22:04
I have to disagree with Mike. Something like that completely overwhelms control...I mean, it has 20 spells to play on turn 2 or before! With 32 must-counter spells (counting each COTH as 2) it will run control out of steam pretty quick....TDD would really wreck it with Deed, but decks like UW, Tempo, UBr, etc. Snake-Tongue, would all have trouble with it. I say we test vs. it.
I agree with Nick, that should wreck control.
Dan should definitely get in, he gets my vote!
Well I am going to see what Konrad's opinion on if we need a new member or not is before I officially declare my vote. I will agree with him, as he is our God :D If he says we don't need a new member, then I will vote with him on that. If he says that a new member would be fine, then I will vote with him on ElGato, seeing how everything thinks he would be a good member, even though I've never spoken to him in my life or played a game against him.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-23-01, 03:47
Well Ed, I'm glad to see you worship me!:D Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside....:)
I do think ElGato would make a good addition to the team. He seems intelligent and looks like he's willing to work harder than most of us. ;) It doesn't look like he's going to sit around talking shop, it looks like he's going to work hard on decks, and that's what we want.
So I say again- I vote YES for Dan.
Ed, I would advise you to make up your own mind about ElGato. If you do not want a new member, or ElGato as the new member, then we will respect that decision as we have always respected every vote from every member. The voting needs to be unanimous.(sp?)
(It looks like yet another mod will join our ranks. Together with all these Immortals and Custom Taggers and Mods, I'm beginning to feel inferior real quick.:))
Chilling_Apparition
12-23-01, 10:48
ALL PRAISE KONRAD! The MIGHTY GOD of Team MTGnews!
::Drops to knees in islamic type prayer position::
I say we set up a sacrifice to appease him! Now, who should we strap to the altar and rip to pieces? Dan maybe? Or we could vote on someone to sacrifice!
Nah.
I think we should cease team activity monday and tuesday in observance of christmas eve and christmas day. I say we vote on it.
Haha, I'll be bored out of my mind if we cease activity for a day! :D
So now we have everyone's vote except for Ed and Scott.
Nick, you're right, I sorta rushed into that decision. And now that I look back on it, the deck does look like it could handle many deck archetypes quite readily.
Hey Nick, you can cease activity, but I sure as hell won't :p
As some of you know, I am totally addicted to MTGO, so I can do alot of testing on there. I also played in a GTO tourney on Apprentice, which I 4-0d, so I have some info about my Wisdom deck.
#1 It kicks ass :D
#2 It loses almost every first game, but wins every match
#3 Splashing white is very neccessary
#4 Wraths aren't
#5 It can't win a match on MTGO :( It's not that it can't win, it just wins so slowly that I run out of time before I win.
#6 The only match I came close to losing was against the deck that "doesn't seem to be fast enough or good enough late game to beat control" :D :D :D It crushed me game 1, and it was only when I sided in 3 Tangle and 2 Evacuation that I won the next 2.
What does MTGO even do? How is it different from Apprentice, other than the fact that you have to pay for it?
I will also vote yes, seeing how ElGato looks to be like a good member (just as long as he's willing to work on other decks, too, so far I've seen nothing but CounterBurn).
I assure you that I would help greatly on other decks (at least to the best of my skills). CB is just the only one with a thread right now.
Originally posted by Proscrypt
I will also vote yes, seeing how ElGato looks to be like a good member (just as long as he's willing to work on other decks, too, so far I've seen nothing but CounterBurn).
I'm assuming that the only reason you've seen nothing but counter-burn from him is because it's the only deck we've been working on!
No, not through Team MTGnews. I meant like around the forums, but then again I hardly ever see any posts by ElGato, so who am I to talk.
Chilling_Apparition
12-23-01, 13:54
Eh, bad idea then. Never mind. Forget my idea.
i think i'd go insane without team activity for 2 days :D
Dan, if you're accepted to the team, e-mail spilinga@aol.com with the following info:
Name
what Formats u play
When u started playing
Age
Favorite Card
and the decklists of your 1-2 favorite decks.
And who should we sacrifice to konrad?
Yawgmoth's Father
12-23-01, 14:36
I demand.....
A VIRGIN!!!!!
I'm a virgin! Oh wait, I shouldn't have said that. You heard nothing! :D
Only one vote to go. Come on Scott, where are you?
Wow, I just had like 10 hours of Magic straight. All of my magic friends came over (a total count of 16) and we played magic for the longest time. I think I'll go to sleep. Zzzzzz....
Chilling_Apparition
12-23-01, 19:39
Originally posted by Skizzik
I'm a virgin! Oh wait, I shouldn't have said that. You heard nothing! :D
Me too... :( :( :mad:
Maybe he went home for the holidays (though I'm not sure why, since he's jewish)
I wish my friends were good...they all suck totally. One thinks mono-green weenie swarm is the best deck in T2 (though pernicious deed has proven him wrong in +20 games :D ) and even thinks he could T8 in a PT with it (no lie). Another one refused to play blastoderm or Sap. burst in FIRES, saying they "weren't good enough". Another plays nothing but modified pre-cons, and another thinks Armored Guardian and "Seera's (he pronounces it like that even though I've explained SERRA) is the best creature in a control deck.
geez, thank god I found these forums back in May, lest I'd still be a scrub!
Get the virgin!!
My friends used to be good... until they quit :( :( :(
Chilling_Apparition
12-24-01, 09:57
Which one?
I say Mike...
because:
a) he's not me (always a plus when someone's gonna die right?)
b) He's a virgin like Konrad demands
c) His superior intellect (he's a genius) should satisfy your immortal hunger, master.
So, who says yes?
Or...wait.....Gabriel's been quiet....maybe him?
terraformer51
12-24-01, 10:10
All right, enough of this virgin sacrifice stuff. It's pretty much pointless and I'll delete any more of it I see :p.
I propose that we set a certain deadline by which Scott can vote, and if he doesn't make it by that date, we count his vote as a "yes" and Dan is in. I don't think it's fair to ANYONE (but especially Dan) to drag this out longer than necessary.
It's not my decision to set the final deadline if we decide to go with it, but if it was :p I would say that Scott has until this Friday to vote on Dan's membership in Team MTGnews, and if he doesn't, tough luck for him :p.
I saw that Lions, Tigers, and Bears (or whatever it's called) yesterday on Brainburst, and it looked very cool. I would be interested in testing it sometime if anyone wanted to play me. Just IM me at halo620.
(And BTW - I had a CetaStorm deck based on Ceta Sanctuary and Meteor Shower before they even dreamed up the combo! :) )
Chilling_Apparition
12-24-01, 11:08
Now, about the virgin thing, I say...
j/k
It's over
I guess friday is fine. It's not fair to Dan to do this.
Ed: Next time I see you on we'll do some testing. i think that deck is interesting.
Brainburst is a great site, I go there about once a week.
TOGIT says the JSS results will be up in a few days, along with my tournament report.
Yawgmoth's Father
12-24-01, 12:27
I know that it might not be fair to Dan, but with all due respect, he is NOT a member of Team MTGNews and Scott is. I think we should give Scott some more time. If you guys see him on AIM, IM him and ask him to vote please.
I hate Windows XP. I'm considering uninstalling it just because of Apprentice. (Other than that it's a great OS, so my dilemna really sucks)
Chilling_Apparition
12-24-01, 14:52
Yes, but Dan is a person and so is scott ;)
I asked him to vote over AIM and left a message since he wasnt there.
Uninstall it! I hate Microsoft! **** them!
(Yes I hate Microsoft, yet I have win 95, 98, Office 97, 97, 99, 2001, :( )
does MTGO work on XP Konrad?
Yawgmoth's Father
12-24-01, 15:36
I know Dan is also a person, and I would like him to join the team as soon as possible. However, I do think that we should give Scott more time. It was not my intent to sound insensitive towards Dan.
I don't have MTGO, because I have a 56k dial-up from South Africa.
I completely agree with Konrad. Scott is a member and has a right to his say, and Dan, while still a person if you want to put it Nick's way, isn't a member.
terraformer51
12-24-01, 19:06
Just to make myself clear and avoid any possible misunderstandings, I am not suggesting Scott shouldn't have a say in it. I AM saying though that I think there should be a certain time by which he has to "cast" his vote. Is it really that unrealistic to expect him to make it by this Friday anyway? Keep in mind that it wouldn't have to be this particular day, just A day that we all agree on.
Also, I need to make it clear that Dan did NOT ask me to do this. I suggested it entirely on my own accord. The voting procedure for entrance into my (well the clan isn't mine, but you know what I mean :p) is that current members have a week to vote on the possibly incoming member and if they don't vote in that period of time then their vote is assumed to be a "yes" vote.
I realize this is not a clan and that we shouldn't do things the same way as a clan. Nevertheless, I support a system with that kind of principle and it was what led me to make the suggestion I did in the first place. Scott is one of my best friends on the site (just like all of you are :)) and I would never do something to screw him over.
No deadlines. We need everyone's vote. It is quite possible that Scott is on vacation somewhere. I'm willing to wait on so important a matter. No disrespect to Dan or anything, but I really want us to be unanimous. I IMed Scott telling him to post (his away message was on) so hopefully he will. We will see.
Ya, this virgin talk belongs elsewhere.
Can't type anymore, very dizzy...
Sorry everyone, I've had a great deal to take care of lately. I am back home for the holidays, but not on vacation--just been out of the house more often than not, and, even when in the house, have a comparatively horrible online connection :(
I haven't seen as much as I'd like from Dan yet (essentially only his posts about CounterBurn in our threads and some posts in the Guru forum, which have been "business"-only), but then again, I hadn't seen a lot from some of the other team members before I joined...and I'm sure that's even more true in reverse, given how infrequently I post :D That which I have seen has been good, and he has the support of those whom have probably seen more of his work than have I on this team and from those against whom he has played on Apprentice, so Dan has my vote. He also said that he would likely have time to do playtesting, which is one area in which the Team is frequently lacking/slower to complete; hopefully this will continue to be a possibility for him.
I'll vote yes for him as well. Welcome to the Team, Dan :)
I'll try to make it in as soon as I possibly can to offer some input regarding CounterBurn, and several other things.
So Dan, you are now officially a member of Team MTGNews, Welcome! :)
Add ~~~Member of Team MTGNews~~~ or something to that effect to your signature.
I'm creating a new thread because this one is really long, and I'll include Dan on the roster.
Closed.
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